In Character Embezzlin` - Another Taboo?

[Romnipotent]

Frankly, it hasn't even been necessary for me to get all authoritarian about this kind of thing because none of my players have been immature enough to try it for the last 15 years or so.

....


A PC who steals from other PC's IMO first needs an in-game occurrence, something that happens after play begins, as an incitement to this kind of thing before I as DM will allow them to go down that road.

I dont see how its immature, its just something that may be done. Immature would be billing the PC's for your services, then in trading the goods, leaving them in debt... just make sure they've signed the contract first. Greed is why the Red Dragon hoards, and why the PC's may very well adventure. To get money to fund a business or other venture, maybe pay off a debt.

I can't see how the party is supposed to be happy and totally collaborative like you've suggested. I've had games like that, they're just as fun as anything else but I'm trying to understand why you think its immature or heinous if the party isn't a perfect almagamation of co-working and wonderfully cheerful with each other hero's (or villains). Many times I've been in games where the party got together out of neccesity, grugingly, in order to solve the problems at hand. The in character tensions made for hilarious arguements, but the fights were mostly verbal or non lethal. The unconventional family of sorts in party construction who dont get along, but dont kill each other makes for dealings and such, you heal the fighter not because you like him but because if he's at 100% then he's more likely to get in the way of something that may kill you.

Can you tell me why Greed isn't valid enough reason? I think if the greedy characters doing the trading/merchant stuff then he may well want to take a cut. Im not saying every character is greedy, and Im not saying that by embezzling they're greedy as well.

Spoiler

another reason I play gurps and enjoy it... disadvantages like Greedy

Even if I did allow rogues to freely steal from other PC's for whatever reason, simply skimming off the top because the PLAYER is given control of dividing treasure is being a meta-gaming jerk.

How is this meta gaming? the rogue (or really ANY other class except Paladin) in game may need to pay off the theives guild to leave the group alone, or the corrupt guards. Maybe the character has (as mentioned) a debt that needs payments made to avoid being hunted
I'd also like to know how. I can't seem to wrap my head around the idea that this is metagaming, the character sells a pile of stuff to some collectors, a few merchants, and a weird guy in a tower... he walks to the inn, counting 34860 GP in his head... theres 6 party members... that would be 5810 GP each but theres a nice climbing harness in the window of a store the character is passing... and some fine climbing rope... a little jewelry box... all up totalling 1860 GP... so each character gets 5500gp, and the rogue gets 7360 in total approxiamated wealth. The climbing equipment and rope mean the character has some tools for helping get more loot, and the jewelry box can be used as a gift in an emergancy. While not being open about the new equipment the character has taken some off the top, not meta gamed because they knew they could get away with it. Meta gaming is a lot different. If the rogue player kept all the money and waited for the other players to remember to ask for loot money because the player knew all the other players were tired/drunk/forgetful just to profit then that may be metagaming, because it wasn't in character.

AS A RULE There must be a DM/GM. As a preference the PC's work together and trust each other.

Romers

 

[Aaron L]

So, most of you play games where all of the PCs are happy cartoon characters who never get into arguments with each other, act out of greed, or make mistakes? I'm not talkign about robbing the party blind, but I wouldnt be in the slightest bit offended OOC if a rogueish character skimmed a few gold peices out of the pot now and then. But mostly, in the games Ive played, the party is composed of people who are genuinely friends with each other, otherwise they wouldnt be putting themselves in deadly situations with these people.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

So, most of you play games where all of the PCs are happy cartoon characters who never get into arguments with each other, act out of greed, or make mistakes? I'm not talkign about robbing the party blind, but I wouldnt be in the slightest bit offended OOC if a rogueish character skimmed a few gold peices out of the pot now and then. But mostly, in the games Ive played, the party is composed of people who are genuinely friends with each other, otherwise they wouldnt be putting themselves in deadly situations with these people.

Your response confuses me. On the one hand, you belittle those who prefer cohesive parties, calling their characters "happy cartoon characters." On the other hand, in the games you've played, "the party is composed of people who are genuinely friends with each other, otherwise they wouldn't be putting themselves in deadly situations with these people." Where exactly do you stand on this? It's as if you're belittling your own position...

 

[D_Sinclair]

I always thought that the thief stealing from the party was a tradition, rather than the exception. Always seemed to be an important cog in the game, figuring out how and what the thief was stealing from everyone.

Last thief I played was a female human in 1st edition (only due to a gender stat bonus, thank you very much) who developed a talent for spotting small, highly valuable things. All I can say is 9000gp is chump change compared to her pilferings. By 11th level, she owned a house in the rich neighborhood of the city, a tavern inside the city walls, a fortified roadside inn about 1 1/2 miles outside the city (see WFRP 1st edition for the general floorplan), and had them all connected by a rather sizeable and deep tunnel, all paid for via her pilferings.

She was chaotic good with kleptomaniac tendencies and very nimble fingers. It was very common for her to steal from party members while keeping overnight watch ("I'm going to go check on the horses, be back in 10 minutes"). And thanks to working a system out with the DM, "scouting ahead" became a great dodge for her as well. Everyone listened in hearing that she grabbed this item or that items, always something big that couldn't possibly be hidden successfully, though she did "try" to hide them just so she would be caught quite obviously trying to swipe something. In reality, she was snatching up every gem she could find and pocketing them and using the obvious theft to distract attention away from her true theft. Of what she snagged, she'd separate the high value from the junk stones, but always saved the junk. See, the party also used her for the treasure appraiser, so she regularly substituted junk for some of the high value stuff she was appraising for the others.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

I always thought that the thief stealing from the party was a tradition, rather than the exception. Always seemed to be an important cog in the game, figuring out how and what the thief was stealing from everyone.

I have no idea how one PC screwing over the others could be considered an important cog in the game. But the (current) ranger player in my game seemed to agree with you. "That's just what halfling rogues do!"

I'll admit, though, that I didn't start playing D&D seriously until 3rd edition. I ran a few one-shot 2nd-edition games in college, and owned (but didn't heed) the original boxed sets when I was in grade school. And all of that was with close friends, not really a part of "D&D culture." Guess I missed out on the tradition, if that is indeed the case.

 

[Romnipotent]

Of course theres contention in the issue of whether it can be done, and for some its a taboo, and for some its just another factor of the game. With the PvP thread as well I've come to one all combining theory.

Everyone and everything in a game can attack, steal, help, hinder, and distract you. Whether its run by the DM or some other guy you share bears with, they both have the capacity.

Edit: You know you'd think I could type beers, given how many I have had tonight.

 

[Aaron L]

Your response confuses me. On the one hand, you belittle those who prefer cohesive parties, calling their characters "happy cartoon characters." On the other hand, in the games you've played, "the party is composed of people who are genuinely friends with each other, otherwise they wouldn't be putting themselves in deadly situations with these people." Where exactly do you stand on this? It's as if you're belittling your own position...

I dont mean to belittle anyone. I just wanted to point out that even friends have problems with each other, and enforcing an unnatural "always be nice to each other" rule is icky. Admittedly it didnt come out very well.

 

[leporidae]

My Ithorian Scoundrel got into the habit of skimming off the top of the groups income, in part because he felt that he had produced most of it (he was the groups business manager and media representative), and because he tended to get stuck with the group expenses. The other characters would spend every cent they had on weapons, armor, and booze - when the time came to pass the hat for life-support and fuel, my Scoundrel would be the only one with any cash.

Ironically, he used the skim to invest in trade goods and distributed shares of the profits to the rest of the party, making them all fairly wealthy (except for the Wookie: that share went for bail and compensation for property damage.)

 

[Ibram]

Well I realy dont see playing a character that would steal from the other PCs... realy, are they the sort of people a guy would want as enemies?

I'd be more then willing to go along with a party where a member was secretly stealing, as long as it was understood that my character would act accordingly once the theift was discovered...

Cleric: no healing/rez
Fighter/Barbarian: PCs head on a pike
Palidan: PC in jail
Wis: hello polymorph or flesh to stone
rogue: PC gets knifed in the back

 

[Plane Sailing]

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