In Character Embezzlin` - Another Taboo?

[argo]

I once pllayed a character who secretly added to the party funds. The character had reached a skill level where he was able to forge his own money, but was too paranoid to go hog wild with it. Instead he decided to simply pad out the expense account a bit on the theory that a little bad cash mixed in with the good would be less noticable. Basically this worked like "divide the profits by party size +1" in reverse: "divide the bill by party size +1 and pay the extra with funny money".

The other players never caught on. Which made for one of the best moments in that game (for me at least). On the day when our boses finally burned the party (as I knew they would) and we are all wondering where to run and what to do; my guy reaches into his little case marked "for emergency only" and pulls out a full set of fake ID's for the party and a big stack of cash and says "now we run, and I can make as much of this as we need to do it"

 

[tetsujin28]

Oddly enough, I've found this to be accepted by multiple groups.

Did they work on Wall Street?

 

[Geoff Watson]

Assuming that people can handle mild PvP it can be OK.

The problem is that it is very easy for a player to cook the books.
That sort of thing is often abstracted, etc.

If the DM gives the other PCs appropriate chances to detect it (Spot to notice large amounts of money/magic items, Sense Motive when the embezzler lies about it, etc), it should be fine.

Unfortunately, often it's 'you didn't notice one of the players writing down the wrong number, so you are not allowed to have a chance of noticing that someone has more wealth than the rest of the group put together'.
If you get suspicious, thats 'using player knowledge' and disallowed.

Geoff.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Is it wrong to steal from your own party? Go Haley

This actually came up when the campaign I'm currently playing in first started. One of the players had decided to play a ranger, even though halfling rogues were his usual forte`. He was really married to the idea that stealing from the party was just "what halfling rogues do" and that it was therefore acceptable.

I smiled and told him that I agreed. It was perfectly acceptable. At least, until my character caught him. Then, if the culprit decided to continue with the party after the beating he'd receive and the gear of his that'd be sold off or given to the other party members, he'd probably come to understand that it's best for everyone if nobody steals from the party. Even the halfling rogue.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

I once pllayed a character who secretly added to the party funds. The character had reached a skill level where he was able to forge his own money, but was too paranoid to go hog wild with it. Instead he decided to simply pad out the expense account a bit on the theory that a little bad cash mixed in with the good would be less noticable. Basically this worked like "divide the profits by party size +1" in reverse: "divide the bill by party size +1 and pay the extra with funny money".

The other players never caught on. Which made for one of the best moments in that game (for me at least). On the day when our boses finally burned the party (as I knew they would) and we are all wondering where to run and what to do; my guy reaches into his little case marked "for emergency only" and pulls out a full set of fake ID's for the party and a big stack of cash and says "now we run, and I can make as much of this as we need to do it"

This story is fantastic. Not only is your character's "shady side" working for the party, instead of against it, you got to pull one over on your party-mates, and the big reveal actually saved their bacon.

Kudos, man.

 

[Romnipotent]

I once pllayed a character who secretly added to the party funds. The character had reached a skill level where he was able to forge his own money, but was too paranoid to go hog wild with it. Instead he decided to simply pad out the expense account a bit on the theory that a little bad cash mixed in with the good would be less noticable. Basically this worked like "divide the profits by party size +1" in reverse: "divide the bill by party size +1 and pay the extra with funny money".

The other players never caught on. Which made for one of the best moments in that game (for me at least). On the day when our boses finally burned the party (as I knew they would) and we are all wondering where to run and what to do; my guy reaches into his little case marked "for emergency only" and pulls out a full set of fake ID's for the party and a big stack of cash and says "now we run, and I can make as much of this as we need to do it"

*clapping*

 

[Man in the Funny Hat]

He in essence stole from the party but everyone still got a handsome wad of money.
I know some people make sure everyone gets the same, but afterwoods I felt that the embezzling added depth to the character and the game. Everyone got paid in secret, not knowing what the other got, or indeed what I kept.

Is it wrong to steal from your own party?

It's not wrong in and of itself, nor taboo. What it is is lame. There is never (IME) any roleplaying involved in this kind of embezzlement. Nothing particularly clever about it. It's like being the banker when playing Monopoly. It's pretty much just a cheap, cheezy way of cheating.

It is the other PLAYERS who are generally trusting you to simply be fair and above-board with treasure division. Players who have their characters embezzle in this fashion are simply taking advantage of that META-GAME trust of other players to make it easy and nigh-impossible to detect the theft IN-game.

Given that, I would have to see OVERWHELMING, COMPELLING roleplaying reasons for a PC to be allowed to do this - I will not allow it just because it can be done. The supporting arguments for this position actually come from arguments regarding how players sometimes abuse alignment, using it as an EXCUSE to justify their actions. For example, just because a characters alignment would ALLOW them to murder another PC does not mean that the character WILL do so, MUST do so, or SHOULD do so. PC's are working together as a party for a reason. It is primarily up to players to have reasons for their PC's to WILLINGLY ASSOCIATE and even PREFER the company of their fellow PC's right from the start. Just as you wouldn't allow a new Evil PC into a party of good aligned PC's and then allow that Evil character to start murdering the other PC's just because his alignment allows it, you must not allow a rogue PC to freely embezzle from the party just because his alignment and class allow it.

In short - playing a rogue does not give you a license to cheat other PLAYERS out of their characters fair share of loot just because your CHARACTERS class and alignment can be used as an excuse.

 

[ThirdWizard]

It's just a pretend character stealing pretend money...

I take the opposite approach. If you set up the thieving and unscrupulous PC to be your group "treasurer" then you deserve to lose every copper piece that you do. If you later complain that he was stealing your money, then you're only interested in people roleplaying when its to your benefit. The problem player isn't the one who is embezzling...

 

[drowdude]

I once played a rogue who skimmed off the top.

I had very good bonuses to appraise, bluff, and diplomacy and usually managed to get very good prices for whatever the party had to sell. Of course, when appropriate I took off a percentage or three for the finder's fee (I am the one who usually uncovered the treasure), handling and storage fees (I had a couple different extradimensional spaces available), a percentage based on how long it took me to sell the stuff, and of course I had to charge for my general expertise
...and at the end I would always shave off a bit here and there to round the numbers out

This was actually done without knowledge of the other players. The DM knew of course. But no one ever caught on, despite the fact that I always insisted on going to sell the stuff by myself.

And then there was the time I went back to the church the paladin had donated most of his money to and recouped our profits... good times

 

[Lord Pendragon]

It's just a pretend character stealing pretend money...

I take the opposite approach. If you set up the thieving and unscrupulous PC to be your group "treasurer" then you deserve to lose every copper piece that you do. If you later complain that he was stealing your money, then you're only interested in people roleplaying when its to your benefit. The problem player isn't the one who is embezzling...

I don't have a problem with this, so long as the rogue player doesn't have a problem with me roleplaying my character's response to a party member cheating him. It's really that simple for me. Often, players who run thieving characters claim roleplaying priviledges, but then cry foul when the rest of the party decides to string them up upon finding out. That's roleplaying too. So long as both are allowed, it's all good.