In-game concept of spell levels?

[Doomhawk]

Shrug.
I still like it better for spell level and caster level to be OOC ideas. I don't think it's necessary for it to be something that in-game characters can figure out, any more than an in-game fighter should call himself a fighter of the third circle because he can make 3 attacks. That is, after all, discernable by characters in the game world as well (he can kill 3 creatures in six seconds without using multiple weapons or striking multiple creatures with one blow [Cleave]).

But like I said before, I've got nothing against the other way, it just isn't my piece of pie.

 

[Jdvn1]

It seems to make sense that the concept of 'spell level' would exist in game but ther term wouldn't. A caster wouldn't say that he casts higher level spells than other people, but that he casts more powerful spells.

Which might get fuzzy with spell level and stats being involved, but I think it'd be obvious that Wish is a more powerful spell than Magic Missle.

 

[Hypersmurf]

That is, after all, discernable by characters in the game world as well (he can kill 3 creatures in six seconds without using multiple weapons or striking multiple creatures with one blow [Cleave]).

Although that's far fuzzier - an attack roll doesn't represent a single swing of the sword; it explicitly states in the PHB that it represents a series of cuts, thrusts, parries, etc. And how many creatures you kill is highly dependent on die rolls.

You need to undertake a lot of trials before you can build up a statistical description of a given fighter.

Whereas with caster level, there's no fuzziness or die rolling required. Count the glowing darts of energy.

-Hyp.

 

[Jdvn1]

Whereas with caster level, there's no fuzziness or die rolling required. Count the glowing darts of energy.

-Hyp.

Assuming you're talking about Magic Missile, that addresses caster level, not spell level. It's not as clear-cut when you're comparing a Fly to a Grease.

 

[Crothian]

Assuming you're talking about Magic Missile, that addresses caster level, not spell level. It's not as clear-cut when you're comparing a Fly to a Grease.

Except he knows he can prepare 4 grease spells in a day and only one fly. And instead of preparing the fly spell he can prepare grease in its place but not vice versa.....there are ways to adress different spell level in game

 

[Jdvn1]

Except he knows he can prepare 4 grease spells in a day and only one fly. And instead of preparing the fly spell he can prepare grease in its place but not vice versa.....there are ways to adress different spell level in game

True, but that quote was in regards to more overt ways of determining spell level. I did mention that spell level can be an in-character concept, but though the term 'spell level' may not exist.

 

[Arbiter of Wyrms]

I've pretty much completely adopted the University system of rataing education:

For Wizards and Clerics:
Apprentice/Acolyte equals 3 or fewer class levels and generally is unsuitable as a PC.
Bachelors of Arcane Sciences or of Divinity are 4th or 5th level casters.
Masters of Arcanum or Divinity are 5th-7th level.
Doctors are 8+
Archmages and High Priests are at least 12th level.

Sorcerers are regarded as self-taught experts with gaping holes in their knowledge base. They are hunted down as abberations by at least one major NPC group (as will Wild Mages and Warlocks be once I get my hands on CA)

I do have to admit, though, I like the Houses and Circles . . . I think I might have to nab that. I might snake "valences," too.

 

[Enkhidu]

I like using Circles as spell levels (example: "the basic Fireball effect is an evocation of the 3rd Circle") and Orders of Power to quantify the magical bonii of armor and weapons.

I've never played with the idea of stealing the valence idea from Sep (who grabbed the concept from Vance, IIRC), though it would come in handy defining caster level as well...

 

[Trainz]

Although that's far fuzzier - an attack roll doesn't represent a single swing of the sword; it explicitly states in the PHB that it represents a series of cuts, thrusts, parries, etc. And how many creatures you kill is highly dependent on die rolls.

You need to undertake a lot of trials before you can build up a statistical description of a given fighter.

Wow. For the first time ever, I disagree with you. Fascinating.

Give a fighter a bow and a barn door 10 feet away. In six seconds, ask him to sink in as many arrows as he can. The first level dude will put one, the 16th level dude will put four. Almost invariably (a 1 always misses). Unless one has the rapid shot feat, but the same goes for some metamagic feats.

 

[painandgreed]

We always used circles too to describe what spells a wizard could cast. There were steps in between but they just don't matter as much in the grand scheme of things as those jumps between circles. So all of a magic-users prestige and rank in an organization was determined by what circle he belonged to.