Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
Trainz said:
I actually thought about ranged attacks and the one roll, one arrow mechanic, before posting.But I decided that Rapid Shot made it hazy enough that it wasn't worth bringing up
-Hyp.
Last edited:
In-game concept of spell levels?
- Thread starter Quasqueton
- Start date
I actually thought about ranged attacks and the one roll, one arrow mechanic, before posting.But I decided that Rapid Shot made it hazy enough that it wasn't worth bringing up
-Hyp.
Larcen
Explorer
Trainz said:
Oh man, I really hope the game rules don't make THAT big an imprint on the game world. I much prefer to assume that most rules are rather an abstract concept that are used to define generalities. I mean, come on, all "16th level dudes" are gonna put 4 arrows into the barn every 6 seconds? That's pretty darn exact.
I shudder to think things are so... mechanical... from the characters point of view.
If the rules say that the 16 level dude gets 4 attacks per round, I always assumed that that meant that over time, in the long run, he probably averages 4 "attacks" per round every 6 seconds. Not that it means 4, attacks, per, round, every, 6, seconds. The is simply not organic enough for my sensibilities.
I think the game rules just try and systemize and breakdown into manageable chunks what could be very complicated situations...but they do not DEFINE the situation. My 16th fighter doesnt get 4 attacks per round because the RULES say so. On the contrary, the rules say so because it is a rough (enough) approximation of what he is capable of doing in game.
Anyway, sorry I am rambling here but it's 4:00 am and I am still at work and waiting for these blasted testers to give this code the thumbs up.
the Jester
Legend
Another valence user here, stolen shamelessly from Sep.
Deadguy
First Post
I'll add too that I use the Circle concept, applied to spell levels. That way the terminology is self-referring. A Wizard of the Third Circle can cast spells of the Third Circle, and if Third Circle spells are comprehensible and castable by you, you are a Third Circle caster.
Indeed in my Shattered World campaign I borrowed the idea that casters often advertise their level of proficiency by wearing a ring. First Circle casters wear it on their right little finger, Second circle on the right ring finger, and so on, until your ring is worn on the left ring finger, indicating mastery of the greatest magics. Though, actually, that's not quite true; some few spellcasters wear their ring on the left little finger: a Wizard (or whatever) of the Tenth Circle. These mighty individuals have proven their worth in some way that sets them apart from the common run (!) of Ninth Circle casters. Usually by defeating demonic lords, or crafting entirely unique approaches to magic, or mastering some ancient magical technique.
I've found that this system actually helps maintain verisimilitude.
Indeed in my Shattered World campaign I borrowed the idea that casters often advertise their level of proficiency by wearing a ring. First Circle casters wear it on their right little finger, Second circle on the right ring finger, and so on, until your ring is worn on the left ring finger, indicating mastery of the greatest magics. Though, actually, that's not quite true; some few spellcasters wear their ring on the left little finger: a Wizard (or whatever) of the Tenth Circle. These mighty individuals have proven their worth in some way that sets them apart from the common run (!) of Ninth Circle casters. Usually by defeating demonic lords, or crafting entirely unique approaches to magic, or mastering some ancient magical technique.
I've found that this system actually helps maintain verisimilitude.
Gez
First Post
I took the "valence" term from Sepulchrave (very good), and also, I named each level.
0: Sepis
1: Igis
2: Andris
3: Ormis
4: Arbis
5: Quamis
6: Caltis
7: Zanis
8: Temenis
9: Celentis
10 (epic): Is
Wizards will categorize among themselves by the numbers of valence of the highest level they are able to use each day. For example, a wizard with three 6th-level spell slot but unable to cast spells of level 7+ will say he is a "Terce of Caltis."
A spellcaster thus is a [Prime, Seconde, Terce, Quarte, Quinte, Hexe, Hepte, Octe, None, Decate, etc.] of [Sepis, Igis, Andris, Ormis, Arbis, Quamis, Caltis, Celentis, Is].
PS: For the name of each spell level, I have stole from Pope Gerbert of Aurillac's names for abacus stones. They were 0 Sipos, 1 Igin, 2 Andras, 3 Ormis, 4 Arbas, 5 Quimas, 6 Caltis, 7 Zenis, 8 Temenias, and 9 Celentis.
0: Sepis
1: Igis
2: Andris
3: Ormis
4: Arbis
5: Quamis
6: Caltis
7: Zanis
8: Temenis
9: Celentis
10 (epic): Is
Wizards will categorize among themselves by the numbers of valence of the highest level they are able to use each day. For example, a wizard with three 6th-level spell slot but unable to cast spells of level 7+ will say he is a "Terce of Caltis."
A spellcaster thus is a [Prime, Seconde, Terce, Quarte, Quinte, Hexe, Hepte, Octe, None, Decate, etc.] of [Sepis, Igis, Andris, Ormis, Arbis, Quamis, Caltis, Celentis, Is].
PS: For the name of each spell level, I have stole from Pope Gerbert of Aurillac's names for abacus stones. They were 0 Sipos, 1 Igin, 2 Andras, 3 Ormis, 4 Arbas, 5 Quimas, 6 Caltis, 7 Zenis, 8 Temenias, and 9 Celentis.
How can be the terms Valence, Circle of Magic, Order of Power, etc. applied to spell point systems? I'm using EoMR, which has even no spell levels (the power of a spell is simply the amount of magic points used in this spell) and I'm stumbling, how to transfer the definitions from the core.
Trainz
Explorer
Larcen said:
Hey, don't bark at me, I don't make the rules.
But face it: 16th level fighter/d00d has 20 arrows in his quiver. Attacks barn door. 6 seconds later, how many arrows remain in his quiver ? That's right: invariably 16. All the time.
I don't care that it's so square and "illogical", but Hyp was mentioning that a wizards' spells are quantifiable by obeservation, but not a fighter: I demonstrated this wasn't so.
In a RPG where you use dice to resolve things, EVERYTHING is quantifiable. The trick is to not think too much about it.
IMC, there is no such thing as a mage of the first circle, second circle, or what not, neither are there any fighters of the bronze order, silver order, or whatever.
Now, I can see WHY it could be interesting to do, but to say it's doable with wizzies but not fighters is... false, IMNSHO.
Psion
Adventurer
I like the idea of circles, and have always made a correspondance between spell levels and the quantum concept of valences, though I never used this term.
I always pictures an apprentice wizard being taught about spell levels from his master by allegories like jars filled with various sized marbles.
I always pictures an apprentice wizard being taught about spell levels from his master by allegories like jars filled with various sized marbles.
diaglo
Adventurer
magic is mystery.
as a caster learns more about the world (trains/gains levels) they unravel more of the mysteries and start to grasp concepts only their former masters knew.
suddenly they are peers.
and then one day they surpass their former instructors.
and so on...
it takes discipline, training, and a sharp mind (either wis or int depending on the magic being grasped)
as a caster learns more about the world (trains/gains levels) they unravel more of the mysteries and start to grasp concepts only their former masters knew.
suddenly they are peers.
and then one day they surpass their former instructors.
and so on...
it takes discipline, training, and a sharp mind (either wis or int depending on the magic being grasped)
nobodez
Explorer
Cool
I've always wondered what to call spell levels in-game, and this gives me ideas, thank you.
I think I'll try to introduce Circles of Magic, but use Valences for spell slots (so, for example, a stock 5th level wizard gets 1 third circle valence, 2 second circle valences, 4 first circle valences, and 4 cantrip valences).
I've always wondered what to call spell levels in-game, and this gives me ideas, thank you.
I think I'll try to introduce Circles of Magic, but use Valences for spell slots (so, for example, a stock 5th level wizard gets 1 third circle valence, 2 second circle valences, 4 first circle valences, and 4 cantrip valences).
