D&D 3E/3.5 In need of help for a 3.5 Warlock based build (considering Eldritch Theurge/Disciple, Ur priest, Sublime Chord)

[Faskill]

Hello all,

A friend of mine is gonna DM a very long campaign (we're probably talking about 300ish hours of play), which will probably not go past level 15 because we have to regroup to play together and we are literally at opposite ends of the country. The leveling pace of the campaign is gonna be VERY SLOW so I need a build that would be as powerful as possible during the early phase as well.

I have recently fallen for the Warlock class which i think does really have a lot of flavour. What I have quickly realized when looking through builds however, is that it is far from "optimized".

I have quite a few builds in my mind, but i don't really know which one is the best, or if i have overlooked some other possibilities.
What I'm looking for is a build that is as powerful as possible, and dealing large amounts of damage (im not looking for a debuffer/healer build here) while having good utility, and that is warlock based.

All books are allowed but with some restrictions for cheesiest choices (Mindsight isn't allowed for example). What's more, feat retraining and taking flaws isnt allowed, so my character will be very feat hungry.

For this reason and also because my DM is gonna respect the XP rules for multiclassing, all the builds i am gonna talk about are human based, but don't hesitate to suggest other races that are as legit as possible (no hengeyokai or other races like that).

Please also discuss feat choices for the builds...

My reasoning is the following : To increase warlock damage, the best way would be to use eldritch glaive. However, it is next to useless early game because i won't have a second attack before level 8 and i need something viable early game. Divine power would help with this but I won't be able to get it before level 9 either. I have thought about some familiar using Snake's Swiftness (to get one additionnal attack) but my DM rules that a raven isn't able to use a wand so unless i polymorph my famliar (using alter self maybe), waste 2 feats to get improved familiar or dip into wizard/sorcerer, that's out of the question.
I have no real answer to this, except perhaps using an eldritch theurge build to compensate for that lack of damage.

My stats have already been rolled, i was thinking of something in the lines of : cha : 16, wis 13 + 1 (level 4) +1 (level 8), int 14 (for skills prerequisites), dex 14, con 12, str 9. They can be swapped around of course.

Here is what I've been toying around with lately :

1) Warlock 4 / Mindbender 1 / Ur-priest 2 / Eldritch Disciple (the rest of the way)

Feats : 1 Spell focus (evil), Iron will (human) ==> (for urpriest), 3 Mortalbane (?), 6 Weapon finesse (? supposing i get to use eldritch glaive with reliable damage), 9-12 Extend spell/ Persistent spell 15 Divine metamagic (Persistent spell??) OR

Pros : Ur priest very fast divine spells evolution, good early game with full warlock damage + the mortalbane bonus.

Cons: Very feat hungry, not able to persist divine power before level 12, no familiar, no domains, Mindsight not allowed. General lack of versatility.

2) Cloistered Cleric of Geshtaï 3 / Warlock 1 / Eldritch Disciple (the rest of the way)

Domains : Travel, Plant, Knowledge (from cloistered cleric)

Feats : 1 Travel Devotion, Plant devotion, Knowledge devotion (from abandonning the domains), Extend spell, Persist spell
3 : Divine metamagic (persist) 6 : Weapon finesse 9 : Obtain familiar 12 : Improved familiar

Pros : A lot of versatility allowed with different domain builds, skill points go through the roof with three levels of cloistered cleric, a lot less feat starved than the previous build, Tankier with luminous armor level 3.

Cons : Lot less warlock damage early, I kinda feel its early game will be very boring, which is especially annoying since the DM is willing to extend the duration of early levels, no real damage before level 8, still no way to have double eldritch glaive damage.

3) Bard 1 / Warlock 8 / Eldritch Theurge 1 / Sublime Chord 1 / Eldritch Theurge (the rest of the way)

Feats : 1 Precocious Apprentice, Sanctum spell (to qualify for Sublime Chord), 3 : Mortalbane 6 Obtain familiar 9 Improved familiar

Pros : High level spells all around, high blasting damage, strong warlock early game.

Cons : Haven't looked through this build as throughly as I should have, not sure my DM would allow the precocious apprentice / sanctum spell cheese to qualify for sublime chord, skill starved, one level in bard slows down early progression, hard

4) Warlock 4 / Random dipping class (thinking of the UA variant of Druid, 1 level in Cloistered cleric for the domains, fighter for weapon finesse) / UR priest 2 / ED

Same build as 1), except that i would be looking for a one level dip that would allow to reduce my feat starving or maybe giving me a familiar for spamming snake's swiftness.


If you've read through all this, I thank you a lot for your dedication to helping me, don't hesitate to post anything that would be of help, not necessarily a full build, even one feat that I have overlooked and which would make my build better.

Thanks in advance for your help,

Faskill

 

[Jackinthegreen]

Given your goal for optimizing, you might be better off posting over at MinMaxBoards if you want really in depth advice.

However, some quick things: You'll want to sit down with your DM and nail down exactly how Eldritch Glaive works. A reason for this is if you can use Power Attack with it (since it becomes a physical weapon you can make AoOs with), then you could probably get some good damage from it. You'll also want to see whether it can even benefit from Weapon Finesse since glaives are 2-handed weapons after all, and your DM might rule you have to use it in two hands. Only a few exotic 2h weapons can be finessed, so good luck getting EG to benefit from that. You may also want to find out whether the DM will allow EG to work as a full attack action rather than a full round action. The former means you could benefit from Haste and other effects that add attacks, but the latter means you won't be able to benefit from most of those because they only work will a full attack, not a full round action. That and the wording in EG itself specifically prohibits getting extra attacks since you're only allowed attacks from BAB. You'll also want to ask whether Mortalbane applies to each attack of EG, or just one of them.

If you're going heavily into stuff reliant on Turn/Rebuke Undead, how prevalent will items that boost those be, especially Nightsticks from Libris Mortis, page 78? The balanced view on nightsticks is you can only benefit from one at a time, but the book itself does not say whether the turn or rebuke uses stack, which most have interpreted to mean they do stack since it's effectively the Extra Turning feat, which is explicitly able to be taken more than once.

You might want to look at The New Warlock Handbook to get a take on the various things available to you in order to perhaps tweak your build ideas.

Edit: Ah, I see you've already posted there. In which case, I suppose I'll move all this stuff over to MMB.

 

[Faskill]

Hi back and thanks for the answer, like i said on the MMB, as it can probably help other users : my view concerning EG is the following :

- You can't make a Power attack with it, as damage rolls of eldritch glaive aren't increased by strength.
- You can use Weapon Finesse on it since it is a touch attack
- It is a full round action and can't benefit from haste, only from Snake's Swiftness
- Mortal bane applies to every attack of EG
- Limited to one Nightstick (and I'm not sure at all i'll be able to find some)

 

[Nezkrul]

see if you can play a gestalt character, if he's amiable. Warlock 15 // Scout 15 isn't too bad

 

[Faskill]

I don't think that's gonna be possible