In praise of the rules lawyer

[Wycen]

The important thing is whether or not the rules lawyer uses their power for good or evil.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

No offense to Danny, who is a lawyer, but it got termed "Rules Lawyer" as a negative play on the way lawyers are percieved by society.

Oh, none taken!

(Still suing your ass though!)

"Have you been called a Rules Lawyer? Didn't it crush your soul...just a little bit? If so, contact the law firm of Danny Al-Catraz, Bill Zebub & Mel Phistopholes to have your case evaluated as part of a pending class-action lawsuit. Just call: 1 800 66 WE SUE."

 

[DumbPaladin]

Sometimes it's the DM's fault.

I'm only a rules lawyer when the DM doesn't know the rules and keeps on making the game unbalanced and unfair.
And believe me, in that case I'll argue ad nauseum. Or just leave the game, it's usually much better.

You're right. The right move is to leave such a game. Not to argue for hours on end, disrupt everyone else's enjoyment, make everything about you, and work with the equally stubborn DM in bringing the entire evening to a crashing halt.

Most of the time, however, my experience has not been that, but more a situation where bad writing and ambiguous wording within the system rules themselves lead to a situation where the DM simply must make a decision. That one player who won't abide by the DM's decision, and keeps suggesting reasons why the DM has ruled incorrectly, even after everyone else has moved on, and gets bent out of shape when the DM doesn't acquiesce to his every demand -- that's a rules lawyer, too.

That's what rules lawyers do. That's why they're not popular.

There's a reason why we have an agreed-upon term for people who argue endlessly and pointlessly, and not one for people who simply are experts on the rules. We don't need a pejorative term for people who know their rules as they are welcome in pretty much every group.

 

[TarionzCousin]

The ones that don't know when to shut up and move on are the rules lawyers.

... and message board posters. Hey! That's us!

Are there any new points to be made in this thread? Either you think the term "Rules Lawyer" has negative connotations or you don't. This thread has devolved to where nothing substantive is being debated--which is why I expect it will go on ad infinitum.

We should be discussing important things, like whether or not Elves are better than you.

 

[nedjer]

We should be discussing important things, like whether or not Elves are better than you.

Well we've still to design a mighty citadel prison in which to incarcerate the worst offenders. We could suspend them in there wrapped up on a drip feed mechanism for Lolth to sip on as an aperitif.

 

[Alexander123]

Some of us don't give the hind end of a rodent about "optimization". There are those who believe the spirit of the rules is infinitely more important than the letter.

Victim of the Stormwind Fallacy.

 

[Lanefan]

Some of us don't give the hind end of a rodent about "optimization". There are those who believe the spirit of the rules is infinitely more important than the letter.

Zhaleskra for the outright win on this one! Heartily seconded.

Victim of the Stormwind Fallacy.

The what?

My experience with rules experts-lawyers-gurus-whatever varies. Some are very useful, correcting me when I screw up and finding stuff when I can't and-or am too busy. Some only become rules whatevers when it can either a) gets their character(s) out of a jam or b) put someone else's character(s) in one.

The second type are annoying; particularly when the game gets bogged down in the resulting argument.

Consistency within the campaign, however, trumps everything. If I rule that x event results from y action once, then that's (in theory) carved in stone for the rest of that campaign. That said, on rare occasions I'll think it over later and realize I screwed something up and-or opened the door to something broken, whereupon my players get an email along the lines of "it worked this way once but that must have been a fluke, 'cause it won't work that way again".

Lanefan

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

The what?

The Stormwind Fallacy.

"Just because you have a mechanically strong, or even optimized, character, doesn't mean you aren't a good roleplayer."

Or, in other words, mechanical optimization and roleplaying ability are orthogonal to each other - like Law and Chaos vs. Good and Evil. "LG, CG, LE, CE, LN, N, CN, NG, and NE" players exist, so just because someone is "Lawful," (e.g., a mechanical character optimizer) doesn't mean they aren't also "Good" (e.g., able to acceptably roleplay the character they created).

EDIT: Also, you botched your sign-off. I am dissapoint.

Patryn of Elven-"'Splainin' the Stuff"-shae

 

[Votan]

A lot of people seem to only think a person's a rules lawyer if they happen to disagree with the DM, judging by this thread.

Nope. I don't always make perfect calls and my memory is suboptimal. I am happy to alter a ruling if it seems unreasonable or incorrect. After all, the game is about having fun and being treated unfairly is definitely unfun.

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

My experience with rules lawyers, especially on Internet messageboards, is primarily with people who insist on strict literalist reading of the rules and then deliberately misread those rules in support of either the most advantageous interpretation or the most perverse and nonsensical interpretation-- they are actively attempting to force the rules of the game into an unplayable state.

I think I am normally inclined to prefer rules-heavy games with lots of options, but watching the CO metagame and rules interpretation arguments over later editions of D&D is turning me into more and more of a fan of older, less precise games.