D&D 5E In Search Of: The 5e Dungeon Master's Guide

[pointofyou]

Making them but three $49.95 rule books to DM (PHB, DMG, MM) already makes it seem like the caring-about-affordability ship already sailed... especially when lots of other D&D adjacent games manage to put the PHB and DMG material in one book without cranking the price through the roof.

I do think it would be nice if the intro things (minus miniatures or cardboard figures and the dice obviously) were available free for download.

I think my biggest problem with the Starter and Beginner sets is that from what I've seen they don't seem like really good introductions to the game. I'm probably just old but I'd probably prefer for them to follow the old ways and learn from an older sibling or cousin and walk uphill both ways to school in their stocking feet hip-deep in snow.

 

[Imaro]

I think their model for new players is watch liveplay stream then buy books then find table.

Well you would be wrong since WotC has stated that the starter sets are for beginning players.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Making them but three $49.95 rule books to DM (PHB, DMG, MM) already makes it seem like the caring-about-affordability ship already sailed... especially when lots of other D&D adjacent games manage to put the PHB and DMG material in one book without cranking the price through the roof.

I do think it would be nice if the intro things (minus miniatures or cardboard figures and the dice obviously) were available free for download.

The Basic Rules!

Basic D&D Rules | Dungeons & Dragons

The Basic Rules for Dungeons & Dragons is a free, downloadable resource to help you get started playing the world's greatest roleplaying game!

dnd.wizards.com

 

[pointofyou]

Well you would be wrong since WotC has stated that the starter sets are for beginning players.

I'm sure WotC says a lot of things. I'm sure at least some of those things are objectively true. I'm sure I wouldn't bet on any given thing being so.

 

[Cadence]

The Basic Rules!

Basic D&D Rules | Dungeons & Dragons

The Basic Rules for Dungeons & Dragons is a free, downloadable resource to help you get started playing the world's greatest roleplaying game!

dnd.wizards.com

Since the PHB and DMG aren't viewed as user friendly or comprehensive enough by many for new players, I was guessing a stripped down version would be even worse for that.

And even though I saw the link to them just the other day on here, I had already forgot all the videos for new players on the WotC site.

 

[Xamnam]

but this narrative where players are falling in droves by the wayside due to the difficulty of learning 5e

I don't think that's what people are implying, just that the DMG/PHB onboarding could be improved. If you want to learn how to DM, and part 1 of the book that the title indicates is supposed to do that is about how to create your own Gods/World/Government, that's not the most approachable introduction. As you indicate, people are learning to play, in great numbers. Some through watching videos of other people and winging it, some through friends, some through the starter sets, and some, like me, through buying the rule books and learning that way. The people who are arguing for a better DMG for starters just want that last option to not be hindered by organization (and to learn from other texts that do it better).

I, personally, was worlds more comfortable having read the PHB and DMG, and then playing through LMoP. There was much that came up in the course of play that was not covered in the adventure book or the basic rule kit included. I was more equipped to handle it, and had a much better game, because I was prepared. Based on my experience, I would not want the starter kit to be my complete and total introduction to the game as a DM.

 

[Imaro]

I'm sure WotC says a lot of things. I'm sure at least some of those things are objectively true. I'm sure I wouldn't bet on any given thing being so.

I mean I guess we could approach this discussion with the mindset WotC are liars... not sure how constructive that is though without proof.

 

[hawkeyefan]

If they really want to be "fully" prepared and have no experience with D&D whatsoever... they really should begin with a starter set.

EDIT: Strangely enough the newest one has a URL for official reference videos to help new DM's included in it.

EDIT 2: You can disagree with it... and maybe it will be changed in the revision of 5e but for now it's pretty clear WotC intends for their starter sets to be the on ramp for new players not the 3 core rulebooks.

The starter set is a perfectly good starting point, yes.

At what point after the starter set is a new DM allowed to use the DMG, would you say? A couple years?

 

[Imaro]

I don't think that's what people are implying, just that the DMG/PHB onboarding could be improved. If you want to learn how to play, and part 1 of the book that the title indicates is supposed to do that is about how to create your own Gods/World/Government, that's not the most approachable introduction. As you indicate, people are learning to play, in great numbers. Some through watching videos of other people and winging it, some through friends, some through the starter sets, and some, like me, through buying the rule books and learning that way. The people who are arguing for a better DMG for starters just want that last option to not be hindered by organization (and to learn from other texts that do it better).

I, personally, was worlds more comfortable having read the PHB and DMG, and then playing through LMoP. There was much that came up in the course of play that was not covered in the adventure book or the basic rule kit included. I was more equipped to handle it, and had a much better game, because I was prepared. Based on my experience, I would not want the starter kit to be my complete and total introduction to the game as a DM.

Then maybe it would be better to drop the whole but what about Billy and Cindy whose uncle plopped down 3 300+ page books in front of them, the correct dice (but didn't think to grab the much more affordable starter set) offered no guidance on how to play the game in a house where they have no internet, or cell phones... type examples and discuss what could be improved. I agree organization is a major issue for the 5e DMG... but what specifically would make the book a better introduction for new players? I keep seeing these vague things cited with very little details (though a starter adventure being included was suggested I personally think a separate download with a QRC code in the book would work better)

 

[Cadence]

The starter set is a perfectly good starting point, yes.

At what point after the starter set is a new DM allowed to use the DMG, would you say? A couple years?

Is the common path to buy a module then and run that and then grow into building one's own campaign? (I have no idea, and so am asking).

If the DMG shuffled its material, it feels like it could probably be picked up right after the starter set and not be a complete dumpster fire. That's a pretty low bar though. Would a dozen pages at the level of "so you just finished running players through the starter set" at the beginning of it potentially be a thing?