In your campaign, can the PCs "lose"

[Sejs]

Oh yes, my PCs can lose.


There are even instances when winning is losing, just along a longer timeline.


Actions have reprocussions, and the PCs actions don't exist in a vacuum. As the old writing guideline goes: don't feature a rifle above the mantlepiece in the first act, unless it gets fired before the final curtain.

 

[Corinth]

Failure = Death, so yes.

 

[Kafkonia]

I personally have no problem killing PCs (as my players can ruefully attest -- I'm trying to cut back, honest.) And I'd have no problem with them "losing", if it ever came to that, but so far (as ToEE is stuck between sessions while players sort out personal lives/have babies) it hasn't.

But it depends on the game, and the players. I personally avoid time tables because they're too rigid, and without a time table it's a lot harder for the players (as opposed to the PCs) lose. Individual PCs may die, but unless they fail at the ultimate climax of the campaign and there is no way for them to recover, it's not really a loss. They, or some other brave soul, can struggle on.

 

[Man in the Funny Hat]

People play the game for the risks.

Not at all universally true. People enjoy the game for any number of reasons and with any number of play styles. Risk of death, defeat, or the like for the PC's is in no way a prerequisite for any given group. I am personally of the opinion that such is helpful in maintaining tension and interest in the game but if you ever play a game where for a long stretch your character or the metaplot is never in any real danger and yet you still are having fun then clearly it's NOT being played just for the risks.

If the PCs are following your plot and campaign plans to the Tee, then you're doing something wrong.

No, when people aren't enjoying the game - THEN you're doing something wrong. Some people are all about the plot. Some are all about just the dicefest combats. Some want a mix. The plot is also NOT a prerequisite on either the part of a given DM or player, for the game to be moving along just fine for all concerned.

Not trying to be overly picky but you do have to be a little easy on the absolute statements when it comes to what OTHER people want and need out of the game.

* * *

Oh yeah, regarding the initial question: Losing is a possibility that I try to avoid as it tends to be a dissatisfying result for all concerned unless it's necessary or intended that victory will ultimately be achieved - just not right now. I don't like to dictate results, but I also don't mind trying to keep the PC's at least favored to win. Moving things in a direction I wanted ahead of time to ENFORCE a larger plot starts to make the players FEEL railroaded. A little plot manipulation (and intended PC losing/dying) is okay, but a little goes a LONG way. Too much easily starts to smack of arbitrariness and spite.

 

[Lord Zardoz]

Oh yes, my PCs can lose.

There are even instances when winning is losing, just along a longer timeline.

So... Call of Cthulhu game then?

END COMMUNICATION

 

[Sejs]

So... Call of Cthulhu game then?

Heh, funny you should mention that...


My campaign is basically a D&D/CoC game set in a modified Forgotten Realms. There've been ominous hints of mythos stuff here and there, psionics and far realms goodness, but I have yet to drop the hammer. The PCs don't fully realize they're in a CoC game yet.

 

[mhacdebhandia]

The most memorable session I've ever DMed ended with the PCs losing:

http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=121800

The campaign ended after that, though....

Here I assumed I wasn't invited back to the following sessions because my replacement character for Carcosa wasn't angsty enough!

To respond to the thread properly:

Yes, the PCs can lose. My upcoming Savage Tide game is one I'm definitely playing by-the-book in that regard: if the PCs screw up, that ol' savage tide will wash the world away in blood.

 

[Kheti sa-Menik]

There really isn't a win or lose to the game I am running. There's no overarching plot to the campaign....no "save the world" or "defeat the evil warlord" or "get the macguffin prevent Bad Things." The campaign is the story of these particular people and their adventures. There are events in the world..wars, famines, etc and the PCs can become involved...or not. The world doesn't exist for the PCs, the PCs are merely living in it.

So, the only way to "lose" would be for a character to die. There's no raising/resurrection so death is feared and final. i

What the PCs do has consequences......right now, they're in a position where they can rescue some captives or walk away. If they walk away, they will leave about 30-40 innocent miners who they agreed to protect to die at the hands of twhe local arabic tribesmen. If the PCs choose to walk away, they don't lose..per se. But in all likelihood, the miners will all die or be sold into slavery; the man who hired the PCs will badmouth their reputations, the Church will frown down on the cleric member of the party for his actions and may punish him, their employer will spread it to his rich associates that the PCs don't follow through so suddenly this network of rich people who may need adventurers to solve their problems that the PCs spent time getting to know will turn chilly and not offer employment; in short, the PCs have a difficult time ahead. But these are the consequences to their choices.

In the game, like real life, choices are important and pave the way forward into the future.
They feel they win if they survive.

 

[dren]

The assumption I play with is they will lose, as characters die, lose hope, lose direction or just give up their current mission. I don't stack the deck agaisnt them but I try to fairly challenge them and only if they fight strategicly, use their resources, role play and work together as a team will they complete a mission. (Sometimes it's just good or bad luck that wins the day.)

Of course the goal isn't too win or lose, but to have fun and look heroic while doing it; that they are fantastic at. And since I don't all or nothing types of adventures, failing doesn't mean the end of their world, just cities being defeated or villians escaping or unknown items being lost, until next week when the PCs try again.

By having failure as a feature, when, after weeks of trying, they finally accomplish their goal it means something, it's not just another notch on their belt, but a meaningful victory that they savor.

 

[the Jester]

To answer the OP, my old campaign world ended when the pcs failed.

I don't mean evil conquered it, or the pcs' home kingdom was destroyed; evil ate nature.

I guess that's losing if anything is!