In Your Experience: How Good are GM's?

[Barastrondo]

A player revolt is when the entire group, en masse, turns to the DM and refuses to play with him or her again. Essentially, they fire the DM.

THAT'S how bad the DM's I played with were. FOUR TIMES. Entire groups walking out on a DM.

Now I'm a touch curious. Were they all mostly situated in the same geographical area? I actually find a chain of terrible luck with GMs plausible, but it becomes more plausible if they're centrally located. Many things transmit from group to group in a given area, which is why you have places where popular games aren't and niche games rule. I'm curious if the same might have happened with bad GM technique.

S'mon, yeah, I'd totally agree with you that my experiences color my responses. When people talk about dumping off more responsibility and power over the game onto the DM, my initial reaction is always, "GOD NO". Because, in my experience, that's not going to end well.

But, I can see that if someone's very rarely had to deal with crap GM's, then this would seem like a good idea.

Yeah, the trust dynamic is essential to the operation of a group. I really prefer gaming with people whose judgment I trust more than I trust the rules. I like to trust the rules, mind, but I like to trust the people I game with -- which is to say, my friends -- more. And I would like them to trust me when I'm running so that if I say "Okay, house rule time," they will accept that, or (even better) ask about it and we can discuss the change, instead of by default assuming that the rule in the book's going to suit this particular campaign a bit better. It sucks if you can't get that dynamic even when you want it.

 

[Hussar]

Heh, about the only thing linking these groups was me. *sigh*

None of them had any contact with the others. I've moved around rather a lot over the past several years, so, I've played with strangers, rather than friends more often than not.

In fact, it's only been the last few years that I've actually had a stable group. Most of the groups I've been involved with have only lasted a couple of years at best and most less than that.

So, yeah, the idea of trusting my co-players is a bit tricky. It takes time to build that trust, and, to be honest, that trust has been abused far more often than not.

And, before anyone asks, no there was no single event I think I could point to to say "this is why we quit this DM". It was far more a chain of events that built up over time. I've found most players will put up with a lot of crap before going to this extreme. I know I certainly have. Getting to the point of player revolt is a lengthy, painful process.

 

[S'mon]

S'mon, yeah, I'd totally agree with you that my experiences color my responses. When people talk about dumping off more responsibility and power over the game onto the DM, my initial reaction is always, "GOD NO". Because, in my experience, that's not going to end well.

But, I can see that if someone's very rarely had to deal with crap GM's, then this would seem like a good idea.

"Must spread some XP around" - I didn't know I was in the habit of giving Hussar XP?!

Anyway, yeah, well said. 4 truly crap GMs could certainly colour one's perspective on GM-trust issues.

 

[S'mon]

And, before anyone asks, no there was no single event I think I could point to to say "this is why we quit this DM". It was far more a chain of events that built up over time. I've found most players will put up with a lot of crap before going to this extreme. I know I certainly have. Getting to the point of player revolt is a lengthy, painful process.

Hmm, you're not one of those instigator players, are you?

I once had a player who seemed fine at first but who systematically sought to turn me against the other players in the group, picking them off one at a time. I expelled one player at her instigation. When I refused to expel a second, she turned on me and destroyed the group. I think she just couldn't be satisfied, and always thought that the grass would be greener with so and so gone, or with herself GMing, etc, but she ended up with nobody.

 

[Raven Crowking]

And, before anyone asks, no there was no single event I think I could point to to say "this is why we quit this DM". It was far more a chain of events that built up over time. I've found most players will put up with a lot of crap before going to this extreme. I know I certainly have. Getting to the point of player revolt is a lengthy, painful process.

I don't advocate simply waiting for things to go to extremes. My immediate question would be, what did you and your fellow players do to improve the situation?

IME and IMHO, a game that sucks is not usually the fault of one person at the table. I've met a few folks who couldn't be salvaged (at that time), and for whom a mass desertion might indeed have been required as a wake-up call. However, such people are very rare IME.

Perhaps you were just unlucky on your "Wandering DM Encounter" rolls?


RC

 

[Wednesday Boy]

GMing by example.

To be perfectly honest, one of my main reasons for starting to GM was because I was just so sick of crap games.

Do any of the GMs who ran the bad games play in the game that you GM? If so, has playing in your game caused them to improve as GMs?


PS: It took until the very last post for me to realize that Raven Crowking's avatar is not the Master Chief from Halo. I think I need glasses.

 

[Raven Crowking]

PS: It took until the very last post for me to realize that Raven Crowking's avatar is not the Master Chief from Halo. I think I need glasses.

My avatar is the goblin I drew for RCFG (full picture will appear in the free Big Book of Monsters).

Now, go and get your glasses!

 

[BryonD]

I find it difficult to put any kind of number to this.

I have certainly encountered flat out bad DMs. So it isn't zero.

But, most of the "less than great" experiences I have had have been with DMs who simply need more experience. And if you realize you are going into game with an inexperienced GM, it has its own fun. And, 9 times out of 10, you can tell when a DM just needs more experience, so it is even a little rewarding to see the growth.
It is not possible to take all the GMs I have played with and line them up in terms of quality.

 

[Hussar]

Couple of thoughts.

Just because a GM runs a bad game for me, doesn't automatically make me think he's a bad GM. I try to be objective enough to be able to say, "Yeah, that was a pretty well run game, just not for me." On the GM side of the screen, I've had a fair few number of players say that to me, so, I can get behind that.

And, I'm also perfectly willing to let inexperience be a mitigating circumstance. If someone's never run a game before, I'm more than willing to put up with an awful lot of stuff, while, (hopefully) offering some constructive feedback.

Actually, in most games that I've been involved with, the after session bull gab has always been a tradition. You play for X hours and then spend Y hours talking about the session. Sometimes it helps, sometimes, it really, really doesn't.

RC- totally. I think I've just rolled the GM version of a medusa on the random encounter table way, way too often.

Do any of the GMs who ran the bad games play in the game that you GM? If so, has playing in your game caused them to improve as GMs?

Unfortunately, no. I may not be a great DM, but, I think I'm decent enough. But, most of the groups I've been involved with, up until the last four years or so, have only lived about a year or so. I've just moved around way too much. Like I said, I play almost exclusively with strangers for most of my gaming career - meet-ups at the FLGS, co-workers and colleagues, that sort of thing.

 

[Rel]

Do any of the GMs who ran the bad games play in the game that you GM? If so, has playing in your game caused them to improve as GMs?

That's an interesting point.

I've been gaming with mostly the same group of guys for the last 20 years. For the large majority of that time there have been basically two of us who swapped off GMing duties. But over the last few years a couple others have stepped up to the plate. I don't think any of them have been bad. New? Sure. But definitely "green with lots of potential".

I'm very pleased to say that when the most recent one took up the reins to give it a try, he did quite well for his first time out. I complimented him and his response was that he's had some very good role models.

That's probably the best GMing compliment I've ever gotten.

Except maybe right after the first time I ever GMed Piratecat and he told me that I was a great GM. That was another pretty good day.