Incorporeal creatures and the dreaded 15ft thick wall

[Three_Haligonians]

Libris Mortis has a pretty good exposition on the Incorporeal status and what it entails, which is good since it can be confusing at times. However, part of the rules state that an incorporeal creature can enter solid objects but it must remain adjacent to the objects exterior at all times.

The book talks about that rule being there to prevent such creatures from taking a short-cut by passing through the earth and what not, but really.. is it that big of a deal? When was the last time your wraith -really- needed to travel through the earth, or even wanted to?

I suppose the rule was put in place to prevent PC's from abusing it in such a way but even then, what spell grants incorporeality with a duration long enough to facilitate travelling through extremely large objects. Is it even that viable a form of travel (since you can't really see where your going).

Am I missing something obvious that makes this rule a must?

J from Three Haligonians

 

[Infiniti2000]

Am I missing something obvious that makes this rule a must?

No. With the rule, however, you could 'trap' incorporeal undead in special vaults with abnormally thick walls and tightly-sealed doors.

 

[Three_Haligonians]

No. With the rule, however, you could 'trap' incorporeal undead in special vaults with abnormally thick walls and tightly-sealed doors.

And doesn't that seem strange? Would it be so bad if one were to "forget" that rule?

J from Three Haligonians

 

[frankthedm]

That 15' foot bit is NOT part of the rules. It was manufactured by the author of the LM book to try and make incoporeal PCs playable, which they are not.

oops! botched that knowledge check

 

[Hypersmurf]

That 15' foot bit is NOT part of the rules. It was manufactured by the author of the LM book to try and make incoporeal PCs playable, which they are not.

From the Monster Manual:
"An incorporeal creature can enter or pass through solid objects, but must remain adjacent to the object’s exterior, and so cannot pass entirely through an object whose space is larger than its own."

I don't know what the "15' foot bit" is, but the bit mentioned by Three_Haligonians is certainly "part of the rules".

-Hyp.

 

[NimrodvanHall]

Incorporeal Subtype:

[...]

An incorporeal creature can enter or pass through solid objects, but must remain adjacent to the object’s exterior, and so cannot pass entirely through an object whose space is larger than its own. It can sense the presence of creatures or objects within a square adjacent to its current location, but enemies have total concealment (50% miss chance) from an incorporeal creature that is inside an object. In order to see farther from the object it is in and attack normally, the incorporeal creature must emerge. An incorporeal creature inside an object has total cover, but when it attacks a creature outside the object it only has cover, so a creature outside with a readied action could strike at it as it attacks. An incorporeal creature cannot pass through a force effect.

 

[Hypersmurf]

oops! botched that knowledge check

It's not in the DMG under Special Abilities: Incorporeal. It's in the SRD under Incorporeal Subtype.

So if you somehow become incorporeal without gaining the subtype, you might argue that the limitation is inapplicable.

-Hyp.

 

[frankthedm]

I'd assume it is supposed to be there in 3.5 to keep Incorp from being passwall at will.

Copy and paste "errors" seem to happen a fair amount in the 3.5 DMG.

 

[Jhulae]

Libris Mortis has a pretty good exposition on the Incorporeal status and what it entails, which is good since it can be confusing at times. However, part of the rules state that an incorporeal creature can enter solid objects but it must remain adjacent to the objects exterior at all times.

The book talks about that rule being there to prevent such creatures from taking a short-cut by passing through the earth and what not, but really.. is it that big of a deal? When was the last time your wraith -really- needed to travel through the earth, or even wanted to?

I suppose the rule was put in place to prevent PC's from abusing it in such a way but even then, what spell grants incorporeality with a duration long enough to facilitate travelling through extremely large objects. Is it even that viable a form of travel (since you can't really see where your going).

Am I missing something obvious that makes this rule a must?

J from Three Haligonians

Well, we've had DM's that had incorporeal undead coming in and out of the walls and floor in dungeons and caverns before. It was extremely annoying trying to fight them for one. And, they'd just stick their eyes out to see where we were before moving around and such.

So, yeah. It's nice to see a hard rule.

 

[Deadguy]

It's not in the DMG under Special Abilities: Incorporeal. It's in the SRD under Incorporeal Subtype.

So if you somehow become incorporeal without gaining the subtype, you might argue that the limitation is inapplicable.

-Hyp.

I think that's because Monster Manual III modified the definition of Incorporeal which was then copied (and explained) in Libris Mortis. So DMG is lagging behind at this stage, and it ought to be mentioned in any future DMG errata document.

But so far as I can tell, the MM III defintion supercedes the DMG for all purposes of defining Incorporeal.