Industry Information Influx?

[Mark CMG]

EN World needs a new motto: check your rabies at the door.

Mouth foam not optional

 

[WhatGravitas]

The tone of an internet community depends on the moderators. The buck stops there. If moderators tolerate antagonistic posting, then it will happen.

Problem: Different people, different strokes. I remember, at the WotC boards, the people attacked a novel author in such a way, that the author was pretty... unamused. Since that day, novel discussion at the WotC boards has, at least, to keep a *very* low profile.

But then, you see Keith Baker there, who openly discusses his novels. You see Mike Mearls here, saying, that he had his fair share of internet, so he doesn't care that much at all.

See? Not every author/designer/staff/whatever has the same opinion of tolerance/insult threshold, coupled with the fact, that the internet is completely inept at transmitting subtle nuances of communication... you get hostility pretty fast, that is only subjectively hostile for some people.

Playing the "in doubt, keep it safe" is pretty nice, but also stifles discussions - because then, posters don't know how far they can go. And sometimes, you just have to ask borderline questions, even if you don't feel hostility and only curiosity.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I'll just go ahead any ask it be closed down before this gets too far along.

Mark - things seem to be back on track. Do you still want it closed?

-Hyp.
(Moderator)

 

[Ry]

EN World needs a new motto: check your rabies at the door.

Umm... are we going to need a spittoon?

 

[RodneyThompson]

The tone of an internet community depends on the moderators. The buck stops there. If moderators tolerate antagonistic posting, then it will happen.

That's certainly a part of it. One of the reasons why I've always preferred talking to people on the Holonet (my boards) vs. the WotC boards is that, until recently, the Wizards boards were just more hostile because the WizO's hands are so tied. At the Holonet, we set the rules and are a "private club" type environment; the WotC boards have to allow more crap because to do otherwise would be a big detriment to WotC customer service. Since the Holonet has no such fear (bad PR might lose us respect, but not any money) we can be a bit more strict with the kinds of attitudes we allow. We can admonish people who don't play nice without having to wait for them to flame someone. It may seem a bit heavy-handed, but it certainly had led to a much more friendly and productive community than you see on many official message boards.

In regards to the topic as a whole, I'm very lucky that the Star Wars fans, even when they get upset, remain by-and-large polite to deal with. I don't blame a lot of designers for not coming to message boards because, at the end of the day, it sucks to get repeatedly "kicked in the junk" and have to keep your own emotions in check. Anyone ever work retail as a salesperson or customer service rep? I used to work at EB Games and by the end of the day I had endured dozens of angry, vitriol-spewing customers while having to remain polite even when the customer was being irrational. You know what? I'll never work retail again after that. I'll do manual labor before I work retail again. Totally ruined my view of the retail industry. It's the same thing for visiting a message board. Not only that, but a lot of times it's what we can't talk about, what we can't say, that would silence the screamers. There's a lot of misinformation out there about the gaming industry and various companies' practices (not just WotC's), but the industry folks can't say anything about a lot of it because A) it could be harmful to another company, which is likely composed of their friends, and B) it would make the designer look like a "mudslinger" and could quickly spiral out of control into an internet argument. Anyone remember that old image from SomethingAwful comparing arguing on the internet to the Special Olympics?

Now, I know some people would say, "Aw, just ignore the screamers," and that's all fine and dandy, but it can be tough to do. Game design, for everyone, is a labor of love. It's putting your creativity out on the page, taking a very fundamental part of you (your own inspiration) and putting it on display for everyone to see. When a violently angry person spews vitriol at your work it can, a lot of times, feel like a personal attack.

I think it's easier for me to stick around message boards, through thick and thin, because I started out as a web/message board junkie and came to game design through that, instead of the other way around. For some people, game design came first, and the internet second, so becoming acclimated to the hostile environment (and make no mistake, any game designer that has ever visited a message board has encountered hostility toward them or their work) can be challenging.

I dunno. People keep crying that "the silence is deafening" out of WotC, while pointing to ex-WotC employees and employees of other companies as examples of companies who do web presence "right," and I think a lot of that is unfair. Even though I read these boards every day, this is my first post outside of Star Wars topics in...months? Hell, I'm worried that just posting in this thread about a totally different topic is going to make me a target just because I work for WotC. A lot of the time, it's not worth the emotional abuse you suffer, and even if 90% of the people are totally rational and calm, that 10% (who embrace hyperbole and knee-jerk reactionism) ruins it for everyone else. Sad truth, but it applies across the spectrum of life.

 

[Thaumaturge]

Playing the "in doubt, keep it safe" is pretty nice, but also stifles discussions - because then, posters don't know how far they can go. And sometimes, you just have to ask borderline questions, even if you don't feel hostility and only curiosity.

True, but there is a way of framing "borderline questions" which shows your intent isn't hostility but honest questioning.

Perhaps ENWorld could have a "Developers' Safehouse" thread where people had to uber mind their ps and qs. Would it be perfect? No, but the status quo seems to be imperect also.

Thaumaturge.

 

[Thaumaturge]

Even though I read these boards every day, this is my first post outside of Star Wars topics in...months? Hell, I'm worried that just posting in this thread about a totally different topic is going to make me a target just because I work for WotC.

I, for one, appreciate your thoughts on the topic.

Thaumaturge.

 

[WhatGravitas]

True, but there is a way of framing "borderline questions" which shows your intent isn't hostility but honest questioning.

Problem: If you're intent is not hostile, you interpret your own text as non-hostile (since you mean it that way), not considering alternate interpretations. Hmmm... perhaps everybody should post a smiley after each statement to express his opinion...

Perhaps ENWorld could have a "Developers' Safehouse" thread where people had to uber mind their ps and qs. Would it be perfect? No, but the status quo seems to be imperect also.

Sounds good. There should be something like that!

 

[Mark CMG]

Mark - things seem to be back on track. Do you still want it closed?

-Hyp.
(Moderator)

There's no safe answer, really, is there? Feel free to email me. This should probably be discussed off board.

 

[jdrakeh]

So where does the buck stop on the interaction or lack of it with industry persons on Internet message boards (particularly here)? Do the posters bear the responsibility? The Industry persons? The medium? The moderators? Something else entirely? Perhaps a combination of all factors?

A lot of industry folks / business owners loathe fan forums because of the entitlement issues that tend to abound there. When reason doesn't prevail at such a forum, they cut back on participation. That said, I personally find ENWorld to be the best fan forum for RPG discussion and by far the most hospitable to publishers and business owners -- of course, I neither own a game store nor work for WotC