Inexperienced DM vs. MIN/MAX druid

[birdboy2000]

I think that companion or not, animals should grow levels if they gain the experience. What is so special about humanoids that only they should get better from experience? I have a cheetah NPC that is sort of my animal companion as a druid(Not technically, as I didn't start as druid), and why shouldn't he grow like the rest of us. Of course, if you mean giving the 2 an experience link, I would be against it.

 

[Spatula]

I think that companion or not, animals should grow levels if they gain the experience. What is so special about humanoids that only they should get better from experience?

Intelligence?

 

[birdboy2000]

Intellegence only decreases the skill point gains per level. A humanoid with 1 intellegence(Not that there would be one) still gets 1 skill point per level.

 

[Squire James]

Taking the word too literally there. How about this one:

Sentience?

 

[Voobaha]

- can his animal companion stats be rolled (so he can eventually get a really rocking animal companion from good rolls)?
- can his animal companion raise levels? (I'd like to implement this just to offset the first request, so I can "simulate" a bond of friendship between him and his animal.)

I'd say no--companions with rolled stats are hirelings and henchmen. These are sidekicks the pc's acquire later on during the campaign as rewards for fame and accomplishments. Basically he wants to upgrade his little critter buddy into a full-fledged weapon at his beck and call, something which makes him more powerful than all the other PCs. Either you have to give the other PCs similar power boosts at the start of the game, or they're going to rightfully complain that the Druid is stealing the limelight from the rest of the party. You'd better be prepared to roll up a faithful sidekick for the rest of the party members to make up for it. So if you have five batmen, be prepared for five robins...

Besides, even fully statted henchmen don't progress in levels as fast the PCs, are rolled up by the GM--*not* the player, and will leave if mistreated (i.e. used as cannon fodder; not paid a share of the treasure, etc). Will his animal companion have the same limitations? If not, then it's unbalancing.


- can he make armor other than hide out of critter skins (like plate mail from monster x) (he could use the AC, but is there a reason other than flavor for this restriction)?
- can he have weapons outside of his druid weapon restrictions (he reasons that the current restrictions are just flavor, and I worry that some are meant to keep damage low)?

This is up to you. If you're an inexperienced GM, don't tinker with the rules too much until you're more confident what the long term game balance issues will be. Explain this to the player. If he's a good player, he should understand. Personally I'd rule that Druids practice their rituals more than learning the martial arts. Using heavier armors and martial weapons requires a lot of time and training, and Druids who want to use them should be required to multiclass or use up feats to acquire the proficiencies he wants. The game is designed so that no one class can do everything and they all have to work together as a party to cover each others' weaknesses. If he's a spellcasting armored tank, slicing his enemies in two with a greatsword while sicking his ferocious animal sidekick on them, then he's not a druid--he's a munchkin.

Just my 2 cents worth

 

[LostSoul]

- can his animal companion stats be rolled (so he can eventually get a really rocking animal companion from good rolls)?

Bad idea. If he keeps on with this, allow him to roll but tell him that you will assign the scores to the abilities. Prioritize Charisma. ("You get along with this one the best! The rest just irritate you.")

- can his animal companion raise levels? (I'd like to implement this just to offset the first request, so I can "simulate" a bond of friendship between him and his animal.)

Maybe - if you force him to give up his own experience points to raise the creature's levels. Simulating the druid investing time training the companion rather than his own skills.

- can he make armor other than hide out of critter skins (like plate mail from monster x) (he could use the AC, but is there a reason other than flavor for this restriction)?

Sure. Just make readily available hides worse than most armour. When they fight tougher monsters, incorporate the hide of the creature into the treasure.

 

[Grandpa]

I apologize for dragging out this old thread. I just didn't get a chance to thank everyone for the great feedback.

I decided to (1) not let him roll stats for his animals, (2) figure out some way to allow standard MM advancement as he raises levels (and check out MotW for more info), (3) put off a ruling on armor (but do some research on dragon hide for possible solutions) and (4) throw out the oath restriction on weaponry (and possibly work on a new weapon list for my campaign).

His latest question was about whether or not the spell speak with animals should help with his training with the handle animal skill. After much thought I decided not to allow it, but also decided that the animal friendship spell itself would grant a +5 to his handle animal checks with regards to tricks, effectively making it a DC 10 on simple tricks (success on take 10) and 15 on complex tricks (success on take 10 with 5 ranks in handle animal of appropriate animal type).

I thought some of you that helped out would be curious how it went. Again, it was a great help. I hope the DM'ing goes well!

 

[Mark]

I apologize for dragging out this old thread. I just didn't get a chance to thank everyone for the great feedback.

I'm chiming in late, mostly because there seemed to be a consensus with which I agreed. There's a deeper problem I think you'll find, but I'll get to that at the end of this post.

I decided to (1) not let him roll stats for his animals, (2) figure out some way to allow standard MM advancement as he raises levels (and check out MotW for more info), (3) put off a ruling on armor (but do some research on dragon hide for possible solutions) and (4) throw out the oath restriction on weaponry (and possibly work on a new weapon list for my campaign).

I'm with you on all but number four. I'd caution against changing any rule, completely. I'd recommend making an exception to a rule before outright changing it. To whit, create a particulr, single weapon of legend of which he has or discvoers knowledge. Allow him to gain such a weapon through adventuring. Perhaps even check out the "weapon leveling" rules so that it becomes something that will grow with him but requires a continual "investment" from him. It's my opinion that if you want something special, as a player, you have to be willing to give up something to get it.

His latest question was about whether or not the spell speak with animals should help with his training with the handle animal skill. After much thought I decided not to allow it, but also decided that the animal friendship spell itself would grant a +5 to his handle animal checks with regards to tricks, effectively making it a DC 10 on simple tricks (success on take 10) and 15 on complex tricks (success on take 10 with 5 ranks in handle animal of appropriate animal type).

Myself, I'd allow Speak with animals to help, if, and only if, used on top of Animal Friendship and Animal Handling. Maybe lower the +5 to +3 and allow "Speak" to gain an additional +2. Overall it's still +5 and requires more time, spell expenditure, and discovery. This assumes that as he is doing the training he, either doesn't know the DC or the rolls are done by you in secret, so that he only finds out the advantage through trial and error.

I thought some of you that helped out would be curious how it went. Again, it was a great help. I hope the DM'ing goes well!

Sorry, so late to the thread, but as I said above, it semed that I would only be echoing the thoughts of others.

On another note, though, I think you need to nip his "wheedling" in the bud. He seems to be constantly asking for you to change the rules of the game to suit his whim. It will definitely cause problems down the road as he keeps asking for more and more.

I know that it wasn't directly asked, but I'd like to proffer some advice on how to handle this. Please, disregard, if you feel it to be too heavy handed.

The next time he asks for something, tell him you will think about it then tell him that you've reconsidered something else you've allowed but with which you didn't feel comfortable. Do this each time he "wheedles" for something outside of the rules. Each time he tries to take more ground, show him the result is that he losses ground he has previously taken. Eventually he'll start looking for ways to use the existing rules and stop trying to change the rules for immediate advantage (something that ultimately hurts the game).

Just two cents...

 

[DungeonKeeperUK]

If you want to go down the line of allow9ing these "advantages" to this player character, you can also remember that this is your world you are creating. Those he meets may well have similar abilities, or the more powerful demenour this character gives off the more likely he is to be the target of abuse...

But would have to agree with others, balance this, for a good give a bad in general....

Just my electrum piece worth

 

[Kichwas]

If I were you (and I was when I first got back in to DnD with 3E) here's how I would handle it:

1. I would announce a zero house rules policy. Until the DM knows a rule very well, they're better off not modifying it. Especially if the desire to modify it comes from one of their players.

Tell them in no uncertain terms that will automaticly reject any request for rule changes or customization. Even if you like the idea. Until you know the rules past your own comfort zone. At that point you will announce your receptivness to the ideas. But before that announcement they had better not even talk about house rules in front of you.


2. I would pick out a player in the group who did know the rules very well and appoint that person rules advisor. Then use them for all they were worth as much as I could.

In fact in my games I often hold the game a moment when there is a dispute until I can get someone to quote me something.

The result is that at first the person may think they've been handed a lot of power; but soon they start to gain that sense of fairness a good DM has, and they work for you.

It's also fun to see their reactions the first time some rule they quoted to gain advantage is quoted by you back at them later on with you using against them. That reaction alone can be a real judge of a player's quality.

As well people learn to make sure they really don't know a rule before they start arguing about it. Because with every argument they all end waiting around. So the frivilous ones tade to fade out and get replaced by the ones where the entire group is actually unclear on how to handle a situation. Again in the end resulting in tricking them into cooperating.