D&D 5E Initial D&D Next Releases Showing Up on Barnes & Noble Website

Dausuul

Legend
But if you go down that rabbit hole, all RPGs should be free. I'm a huge supporter of the OGL, but I don't think of it as an excuse to not buy the books being published. Rather, I think of it as a major selling point. It's the only reason I bought 13th Age.
Of course it's a selling point. The value proposition of a game is much increased if you can bring in new players without making them buy the books up front (or buy a spare copy yourself).

But that's the issue, isn't it? Pathfinder has all the rules available online for free. That makes it more palatable to pay top dollar for physical books. We don't yet know if 5E will have an OGL. I am cautiously hopeful, but at the moment we have only speculation that 5E will be any different from 4E in this regard.
 

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DaveMage

Slumbering in Tsar
Of course it's a selling point. The value proposition of a game is much increased if you can bring in new players without making them buy the books up front (or buy a spare copy yourself).

But that's the issue, isn't it? Pathfinder has all the rules available online for free. That makes it more palatable to pay top dollar for physical books. We don't yet know if 5E will have an OGL. I am cautiously hopeful, but at the moment we have only speculation that 5E will be any different from 4E in this regard.

*And* the Pathfinder core book is only $10 as a PDF. Will Wizards do the same with D&D for those that don't want to spend $50? Time will tell.

(Though they should release all of the rules for free.)
 

Jeff Carlsen

Adventurer
There are a few other factors (all supposition) that might make the $50 price point rational from Wizards of the Coast's perspective.

1. They haven't had a product to sell in a while, so they can't afford a small margin.
2. It's been stated that the art budget is quite high, which will raise the price of the book.
3. (And this is highly speculative), the claim that they want to focus on fewer, more focused releases means that they need to make larger margins on each individual product, and hope to sell more of each over time.

If I have to guess, $50 will be the price point, but the production values will be such to help convince us that the value is there. I point to the Pathfinder Inner Sea World Guide as an example of this approach.
 

Agamon

Adventurer
Huh. B&N have discounted the prices already. They have SKU #s, so perhaps the prices aren't a pie-in-the-sky as I thought.
 

N'raac

First Post
3.0e was released one book per month. The first printing of the PHB included a small number of monsters (and, I think, magic items) to tide you over until the other books were out. 3.5e was released all at once.

And I remember that, and that they were removed from later printings, once you said it...post edited.

Well, provided we redefine 'began' - after all, 2nd Edition had splatbooks for each individual class and each individual race (except Gnomes and Halflings, who got half of one each). :)

True, dat (and edited) - sory, can't XP you for the fix.

I think 3e was the first edition planned for splatbooks, though. Even the OGL seemed geared at making others write those low-profit adventures.

It was, but it covered everything you needed for a set range of levels in each box - races/classes, monsters, magic items, DM advice, etc. Call it a "layered" approach where each release stacked on to the previous vs. AD&D's model (and the main one ever since then) of a "silo-ed" approach of separate books for players and DM's that covered all possible levels in each book.

It would be really interesting to try the BECMI approach today. Beyond just changing things up it would give the designers a chance to ensure that the basic mechanics were sound before moving to the next tier of play. I would love to see that.

Again, true, a different approach, and one meriting consideration. But still not an "all in one" release (the Rules Cyclopedia was). Being forced to buy the box also meant everyone had to buy the adventure module if they wanted the rules.

A further advantage of publishing the rules "level by level" - future releases could fix problems already discovered. As well, focused adventure releases would be practical. Tough on setting releases, though, since the NPC's would be constrained to published levels. But then, upgrading NPC's for new splatbooks is no mean feat either.

3.0 was one book a month. 3.5 may have been different, but 3.0 was staggered. It's debatable whether it began in 1E AD&D (Unearther Arcana? Survival Guides?) but splat books were all over 2nd Edition - see the "Complete Book of X" series that was all over the place back then.

I think 3.5 was all at once, but I may be misrecalling that as well. Those were more like reprints with errata though.

I don't consider the splatbook trend to be a 1st Ed thing. Those were more like rules expansions a lot of games published back then, not routine additions to the game mechanics. 2e, I think, is where the prospects started being perceived, so I was late on that as well. I think 3e would be the first edition designed to be splatbook-heavy, though.

Yes 4E gave us multiple PHB's and DMG's AND splat books for classes (well, power sources), continuing the trend from 3E. I expect we will see more of that with the new edition too.

Definitely - the hobby as a whole has evolved in that regard. Back in The Day, the game came in one box, typically with a Players Book, a GM's Book and an Adventure. If it did well, it got more adventure books, maybe setting books, and perhaps the occasional Rules Update book. AD&D was the notable exception.

But 2e brought the lesson that adventures sell to GM's, where splatbooks also sell to players. By 3e, that genie was never going back into the bottle. Many publishers minimize or avoid published adventures now, because they just don't sell as well.

Very true. I don't think we can tell form this discovery alone which approach is being used this time.

Agreed. Someone upthread noted the desirability of having the game released well before the big Cons. Having only a partial release to even sell AT the cons likely will not be a great result. This, I think, lends some credence to the "PHB" holding all rules needed to play, and maybe some sample monsters as well (or a sample monsters giveaway at the cons dovetailing with adventures used at the cons).
 

delericho

Legend
I think 3e was the first edition planned for splatbooks, though. Even the OGL seemed geared at making others write those low-profit adventures.

The OGL/d20 license were definitely envisaged to enable other companies to provide things like adventure support - low-margin items that WotC didn't really want to do. Somewhere along the line, that didn't quite work out entirely as they'd envisaged... :)

However, a nitpick: from the (original cover) 2nd Ed PHB, p.8:

"Expanded character class books - The Complete Fighter, The Complete Thief, etc. - provide a lot more detail on these character classes than does the Player's Handbook."

So they'd planned the 2nd Ed splatbooks from the outset.
 

Lord_Blacksteel

Adventurer
The OGL/d20 license were definitely envisaged to enable other companies to provide things like adventure support - low-margin items that WotC didn't really want to do. Somewhere along the line, that didn't quite work out entirely as they'd envisaged... :)

You're entirely right, but I wonder if that has changed now. Paizo has shown that they can run a healthy line based mainly on providing adventures, with the rules as a supplement to those. The companies run on a different scale, but the financials seem to be working better than 4E's were a few years back. Additionally, those adventures have created some value as an IP of their own, crossing over into the Pathfinder card game and potentially an MMO. I wonder if we will see more attention paid to adventures in this edition, even if it's just updates/sequels to some of the classics as with the recent hardback compilations? Any open/free license could create a threat to that and would be one more reason (from the crporate point of view) not to have one.

Also, several people have mentioned an OGL and freely available rules online as an incentive to purchase a $50 rulebook. Isn't it a disincentive? If I can get the same rules for free, why spend the money on the book?
 

Cadence

Legend
Supporter
Isn't it a disincentive? If I can get the same rules for free, why spend the money on the book?

Having either an SRD or a cheap ($14.95 or under) .pdf seems like a big positive for our group to even try a game at all if most of us don't already have a copy. The majority of people at our table prefer the hard copy and will pick that up if the game sticks, and I think everyone at our table likes to support the people who make the games.

If it's just a matter of free and not supporting the creators -- what's the over-under on how many days after release until googling 5e player's handbook .pdf turns up a high quality scanned copy?
 

nofax1

Explorer
Considering that video games cost upwards of $60 not including the DLC's that can be purchased on top of that, the amount of value you get from the books far outweighs the 15-30 hours you get from the standard single player game. $50 for a book that you will get years of value from still seems like a good investment. I'd prefer something closer to $35 or $40 but I'm not going to get all wound up over $15.
 

I'd call US$ 50 for a book I use for 4-5 years of gaming still a good deal.

Except that if history is any guide, you'll only get 2-3 years before they release v5.5, 5E Essentials, or whatever the name for the next in-edition product refresh will be...

*ducks*

fjw70 said:
Comparisons to earlier editions or other games isn't really relevant to me. I just ask myself if the price of book X is worth it to me at the time. Sometimes that is a yes and sometimes it is a no. For a 5e PH I would pay $50 (or more accurately the $30-40 Amazon will charge).

So in other words, you *won't* pay $50. I wonder if WotC is jacking up the wholesale price (given some of the inflation calculators show $10 over previous books) to get a bit more after the inevitable internet point of sale discounting. Or perhaps the page count is just larger.

Kind of sucks for your FLGS if they have to retail at $50 for a brand-new product release and compete against a $35 price on line.

Personally, I'll pay a $35 discount price. For $50 including discount, it had better be a complete core rules, or within one book (+MM) of doing so (for the record, I only bought the Pathfinder Basic guide since my 3.X stuff was usable).
 

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