Initiate of the Old Faith

[Aulirophile]

Wait, are you talking about a full Druid's Wild Shape?
Can't a full Druid fly (1st level) if he takes the form of a bird?

Haha, no. That'd be awesome. There are some (daily) utility powers that grant you that ability.

Basically Wild Shape does 4 things, mechanically, to your stats.

1.) Turns you into a medium beast, meaning you take up a 5x5x5 foot area. You are not small.
2.) Makes you drop anything that is not an implement (shields immediately come to mind... yeah, those don't work. yay etc).
3.) Prevents you from using any attack, utility, or feat power that does not have the Beast Form keyword. Sustaining powers does not count as using them. Note that specific wording, you can still use Racial powers.
4.) Allows you to use powers that have the Beast Form keyword.

Nothing else changes mechanically. Wild Shape in 4e is really, really lame imo, even for actual Druids. And I say that as a level 19 Elf Predator Druid in a weekly campaign.

 

[Mesh Hong]

You could hide on the roof with a flock of pigeons.

Doesn't work, you'd be a medium-sized pigeon.

That is comedy gold.

I am sure you could build an amusing NPC around the theme of blending in with the wildlife but with tragic scale issues.

 

[DracoSuave]

I see a lot of players in this thread mistaking 'Wild Shape' for 'Wish Spell.'

You want your Wild Shape to be something cool, you invest in it. Druids are sort of -designed- around that idea. It's designed to be flexible, without being 'I win cause I took Druid' like it was in the days of CoDzilla.

I know that might be an alien thought, that if you want your character to be able to do something, that you actually have to pick the powers and feats that allow you to do that something, but that's the way this game works now, and you have to take it at that level.


And in fourth edition, shifting for free as a minor action every other turn isn't bad. Shifting for free every turn with a second feat (and yes, this is if you're multiclassed) is actually -really- good.

 

[twilsemail]

Doesn't work, you'd be a medium-sized pigeon.

I'm pretty sure I've seen a medium sized pigeon...

Maybe it was a druid.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Haha, no. That'd be awesome. There are some (daily) utility powers that grant you that ability.

Basically Wild Shape does 4 things, mechanically, to your stats.

1.) Turns you into a medium beast, meaning you take up a 5x5x5 foot area. You are not small.
2.) Makes you drop anything that is not an implement (shields immediately come to mind... yeah, those don't work. yay etc).
3.) Prevents you from using any attack, utility, or feat power that does not have the Beast Form keyword. Sustaining powers does not count as using them. Note that specific wording, you can still use Racial powers.
4.) Allows you to use powers that have the Beast Form keyword.

Nothing else changes mechanically. Wild Shape in 4e is really, really lame imo, even for actual Druids. And I say that as a level 19 Elf Predator Druid in a weekly campaign.

Aside from the awesome RP possibilities and access to a lot of other feats and whatnot that will let you do more interesting stuff. Wildshape just isn't intended to be something with huge mechanical benefits right out of the box. 3.x made THAT mistake, no need to repeat it...

Really though, unless your game is nothing but tactical combat I suspect the RP possibilities are pretty nice.

 

[Pssthpok]

I think it's infinitely lameballs to say you can take the shape of a bird but can't fly.
Sure, 4e has done a lot to address power bloat issues from PC class combos, but this sort of thing is a smack in the face.

RP is not about taking feats, guys. RP is RP. Taking feats is purely mechanical, and 4e has reduced the RP of being a druid into a purely mechanical abstraction.

It speaks to nothing other than the designer's inability to imagine a PC class that allows animal forms without breaking the game.

How's about letting druids become animals of certain types only at certain levels, but with the full compliment of that form's natural abilities? So, bird shapes are off-limits until 16th level, but they can fly.

 

[yesnomu]

I think it's infinitely lameballs to say you can take the shape of a bird but can't fly.
Sure, 4e has done a lot to address power bloat issues from PC class combos, but this sort of thing is a smack in the face.

RP is not about taking feats, guys. RP is RP. Taking feats is purely mechanical, and 4e has reduced the RP of being a druid into a purely mechanical abstraction.

It speaks to nothing other than the designer's inability to imagine a PC class that allows animal forms without breaking the game.

How's about letting druids become animals of certain types only at certain levels, but with the full compliment of that form's natural abilities? So, bird shapes are off-limits until 16th level, but they can fly.

That's essentially what they do--flying birds are off-limits until 6th level, when you can take Black Harbinger. In the meantime, you can look like whatever you want, because there's no reason to remove cosmetic possibilities when the mechanics work. Restrict yourself to ground animals if you feel like you ought to be.

 

[Dan'L]

RP is not about taking feats, guys. RP is RP. Taking feats is purely mechanical, and 4e has reduced the RP of being a druid into a purely mechanical abstraction.

Taking feats is about character development. Some feats develop the character more for tactical combat, while others lend more towards developing a base for increased RP potential.

It speaks to nothing other than the designer's inability to imagine a PC class that allows animal forms without breaking the game.

It possibly also speaks to player inability to imagine that gaining full mastery of another form may need to develop over time.

You can't turn into anything tiny (as most birds are tiny) at first level anyway. But you CAN do it by sixth level, complete with a fly speed with the Black Harbinger utility power.

How's about letting druids become animals of certain types only at certain levels, but with the full compliment of that form's natural abilities? So, bird shapes are off-limits until 16th level, but they can fly.

They have already done this through various utility powers (like the above-mentioned Black Harbinger) and Paragon Paths like Sky Hunter. Is the problem that they've restricted the usage of these specialized forms to only about five minutes at a time?

-Dan'L

 

[renau1g]

I'm pretty sure I've seen a medium sized pigeon...

Maybe it was a druid.

Why's everyone down on the medium sized birds? Lookit this one in a fight...one tough bird


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jpoki4wBwtA]YouTube - Family Guy - The Original Chicken Fight[/ame]

 

[Kingreaper]

I think it's infinitely lameballs to say you can take the shape of a bird but can't fly.

If you took the form of a bird, could you fly?

no.


You don't know how.


Nor does a level 1 druid. It's really hard tapping into a whole mode of transportation you never used to have. Learning how to flap the wings just right. It's like learning to walk all over again.


And hell, there's no rule saying you HAVE TO take the form of a bird. My girlfriends druid can only take the form of cats. Big cats, little cats, cats with poisonous bites, and if she ever plays epic levels probably at least one flying cat; but they're all cats.