Initiative Idea :)
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Everyone gets the benefit/detriment once.
You don't let people Delay their actions to keep status effects going longer, do you?
weem
First Post
Well, I've only been through... I think 6-7 encounters using it now - and it has not been an issue. I have not been strict on making sure no one was being effected more than once, but to be honest, I'm not too worried about it...
...now if I saw my players shifting their order to maximize this kind of thing, there could be an issue - but they are focused on everything else but the duration of buffs or conditions so I'm not worried, as I mentioned. Best case scenario for them (they understood the benefits, shifted orders around to maximize it but hid it from me), I don't imagine it would do a whole lot to benefit them... let's say encounters were ended quicker/easier by them... I would notice things were easy and make encounters more difficult, even if I didn't realize why.
But that's my answer off the cuff without time to give it a ton of thought (on my way out the door)
weem
First Post
Ok at the office now, so naturally I have access to a PHB... so I took a peek at the rules for delaying as I thought it mentioned something about this...
(page 288 PHB for reference)
Basically, it says that you do not have a normal end of turn when you delay. It goes on to state specifics about each effect type as follows...
End Beneficial Effects when You Delay: At the moment you delay, end effects that last until the end of your turn and that are beneficial to you or your allies.
End Sustained Effects when You Delay: You can’t sustain a power if you delay. At the moment you delay your action, the “check actions spent” part of the end of your turn occurs. Because you haven’t spent an action to sustain any active powers, sustainable effects end.
So with all that said, In your example of blinding barrage (and using the ars ludi system), the enemies could be effected twice (to the benefit of other PC's) but that would be it...
================
EX:
Rogue: Blinding Barrage
PC2: attacks (vs blinded target)
PC3: attacks (vs blinded target)
PC4: attacks (vs blinded target)
PC4: attacks (vs blinded target)
Enemy(ies) goes
PC2: attacks (vs blinded target, again)
PC3: attacks (vs blinded target, again)
PC4: attacks (vs blinded target, again)
PC4: attacks (vs blinded target, again)
Rogue: attacks (ending blind effect)
=========
In this sequence, the enemy goes next, so in order to drag out the effect any further, the Rogue would have to institute a delayed action (to drag out his turn past the enemies next turn) which would end his effect.
I can understand ruling that they are only blinded one time, but for me that's more involved tracking than necessary and goes against the reasoning for using the ars ludi system in the first place. Allowing it can give the PC's the advantage, but like I said before, I would just make things slightly harder if things were going too easy for them - and though I can't think of any specifics off hand, another thing to consider is that any tactic such as this that the PC's employ, so too can the monsters
(page 288 PHB for reference)
Basically, it says that you do not have a normal end of turn when you delay. It goes on to state specifics about each effect type as follows...
End Beneficial Effects when You Delay: At the moment you delay, end effects that last until the end of your turn and that are beneficial to you or your allies.
End Sustained Effects when You Delay: You can’t sustain a power if you delay. At the moment you delay your action, the “check actions spent” part of the end of your turn occurs. Because you haven’t spent an action to sustain any active powers, sustainable effects end.
So with all that said, In your example of blinding barrage (and using the ars ludi system), the enemies could be effected twice (to the benefit of other PC's) but that would be it...
================
EX:
Rogue: Blinding Barrage
PC2: attacks (vs blinded target)
PC3: attacks (vs blinded target)
PC4: attacks (vs blinded target)
PC4: attacks (vs blinded target)
Enemy(ies) goes
PC2: attacks (vs blinded target, again)
PC3: attacks (vs blinded target, again)
PC4: attacks (vs blinded target, again)
PC4: attacks (vs blinded target, again)
Rogue: attacks (ending blind effect)
=========
In this sequence, the enemy goes next, so in order to drag out the effect any further, the Rogue would have to institute a delayed action (to drag out his turn past the enemies next turn) which would end his effect.
I can understand ruling that they are only blinded one time, but for me that's more involved tracking than necessary and goes against the reasoning for using the ars ludi system in the first place. Allowing it can give the PC's the advantage, but like I said before, I would just make things slightly harder if things were going too easy for them - and though I can't think of any specifics off hand, another thing to consider is that any tactic such as this that the PC's employ, so too can the monsters
Last edited:
weem
First Post
Ok at the office now, so naturally I have access to a PHB... so I took a peek at the rules for delaying as I thought it mentioned something about this...
(page 288 PHB for reference)
Basically, it says that you do not have a normal end of turn when you delay. It goes on to state specifics about each effect type as follows...
End Beneficial Effects when You Delay: At the moment you delay, end effects that last until the end of your turn and that are beneficial to you or your allies. For example, if on your previous turn you stunned an enemy until the end of your next turn, the stunned condition ends. You can’t prolong a beneficial effect by delaying.
End Sustained Effects when You Delay: You can’t sustain a power if you delay. At the moment you delay your action, the “check actions spent” part of the end of your turn occurs. Because you haven’t spent an action to sustain any active powers, sustainable effects end.
So with all that said, In your example of blinding barrage (and using the ars ludi system), the enemies could be effected twice (to the benefit of other PC's) but that would be it...
================
EX:
Rogue: Blinding Barrage
PC2: attacks (vs blinded target)
PC3: attacks (vs blinded target)
PC4: attacks (vs blinded target)
PC4: attacks (vs blinded target)
Enemy(ies) goes
PC2: attacks (vs blinded target, again)
PC3: attacks (vs blinded target, again)
PC4: attacks (vs blinded target, again)
PC4: attacks (vs blinded target, again)
Rogue: attacks
=========
In this sequence, the enemy goes next, so in order to drag out the effect any further, the Rogue would have to institute a delayed action (to drag out his turn past the enemies next turn) which would end his effect.
--- edit ---
Another thing to remember... at least for me, any tactic such as this that the PC's can employ, enemies can as well. I looked and there are not a lot of abilities in the MM that a) effect multiple targets AND b) last till the end of the monsters turn - but you most certainly could change some to work this way or even add some in the event that the PC's play that tactic more frequently than you like. Of course, as has been mentioned, you could also only allow effects to occur one time and just deal with the added work of tracking those circumstances.
(page 288 PHB for reference)
Basically, it says that you do not have a normal end of turn when you delay. It goes on to state specifics about each effect type as follows...
End Beneficial Effects when You Delay: At the moment you delay, end effects that last until the end of your turn and that are beneficial to you or your allies. For example, if on your previous turn you stunned an enemy until the end of your next turn, the stunned condition ends. You can’t prolong a beneficial effect by delaying.
End Sustained Effects when You Delay: You can’t sustain a power if you delay. At the moment you delay your action, the “check actions spent” part of the end of your turn occurs. Because you haven’t spent an action to sustain any active powers, sustainable effects end.
So with all that said, In your example of blinding barrage (and using the ars ludi system), the enemies could be effected twice (to the benefit of other PC's) but that would be it...
================
EX:
Rogue: Blinding Barrage
PC2: attacks (vs blinded target)
PC3: attacks (vs blinded target)
PC4: attacks (vs blinded target)
PC4: attacks (vs blinded target)
Enemy(ies) goes
PC2: attacks (vs blinded target, again)
PC3: attacks (vs blinded target, again)
PC4: attacks (vs blinded target, again)
PC4: attacks (vs blinded target, again)
Rogue: attacks
=========
In this sequence, the enemy goes next, so in order to drag out the effect any further, the Rogue would have to institute a delayed action (to drag out his turn past the enemies next turn) which would end his effect.
--- edit ---
Another thing to remember... at least for me, any tactic such as this that the PC's can employ, enemies can as well. I looked and there are not a lot of abilities in the MM that a) effect multiple targets AND b) last till the end of the monsters turn - but you most certainly could change some to work this way or even add some in the event that the PC's play that tactic more frequently than you like. Of course, as has been mentioned, you could also only allow effects to occur one time and just deal with the added work of tracking those circumstances.
Last edited:
I think that covers it.
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