D&D 4E Initiative in 4E

[Hairfoot]

Has there been any word on how initiative's going to work in the new edition?

Problems I have with the traditional method are:

1. Chessboard action, where 1 PC (or all the monsters) move around and attack while everyone else stands still.

2. Archers waiting six seconds to get their act together, then having 2 shot instantaneously.

In 3E, I got around those two by having individual initiatives for all models (even though it's a pain to manage) and making archers delay subsequent shots by an initiative count equal to their hit penalty.

One thing I like from C&C is rounds that are essentially half-rounds: you can take a full move or attack or quaff a potion. It allows players and opponents to be reactive rather than standing still while their foe has a standard/move/swift/free round.

Any changes you'd like to see?

 

[The Little Raven]

Any changes you'd like to see?

I'd like to see tick-based combat slit round-based combat's throat and bury it out in the desert. Exalted 2nd Edition (and Scion) use tick-based combat, and I've totally fallen in love with it. Every action you take has a speed value attached to it, and you wait that number of "ticks" (abstract measurement of time, though it can represent real time; in Exalted it equals one second per tick) until you can act again. This way, you can more easily represent the difference between a faster, light attack (low damage, speed 3 for example) and a heavy, powerful one (high damage, speed 6 for example).

 

[KB9JMQ]

Ive been wondering about any possible changes also.

 

[HelloChristian]

I wouldn't mind if actions were broken down into smaller chunks. On your turn you can do 1 thing. Move or attack or cast a spell or drink a potion, etc. I'd like that.

 

[Klaus]

One thing I'd like to see is the return of a little rule from (gasp!) 2e:

Creatures get an initiative modifier based on size (smaller creatures get a bonus, larger creatures get a penalty). The AC modifiers should suffice.

 

[I'm A Banana]

I'd like to see tick-based combat slit round-based combat's throat and bury it out in the desert. Exalted 2nd Edition (and Scion) use tick-based combat, and I've totally fallen in love with it. Every action you take has a speed value attached to it, and you wait that number of "ticks" (abstract measurement of time, though it can represent real time; in Exalted it equals one second per tick) until you can act again. This way, you can more easily represent the difference between a faster, light attack (low damage, speed 3 for example) and a heavy, powerful one (high damage, speed 6 for example).

I've gotta check that out.

FFZ does something kind of similar where you still roll d20 for your initiative (adding dex and a level-based increase we call Agility), but when you take actions, your initiative count is changed in the next round by the Delay of the action (usually -5 to -10). You can regain your initiative standing by taking Wait actions. If you have a high enough initiative count, you gain extra actions in the round, and if your initiative count drops to low, you might loose your actions for the round.

It makes speed a really vital character ability -- no one wants to miss a round's worth of actions because they're taking a bunch of slow moves. And it really enhances a fast-paced battle. It's also very much in the Anime/Japanese style of quick, deadly, lightly armored heroes.

 

[WayneLigon]

1. Chessboard action, where 1 PC (or all the monsters) move around and attack while everyone else stands still.

2. Archers waiting six seconds to get their act together, then having 2 shot instantaneously.

You do know that those things don't actually happen that way, don't you? It being a somewhat abstract system; that means it doesn't model exactly how things work in reality but instead sacrifices some of that so a clear and easy-to-understand order can be imposed to make things work smoothly.

 

[RigaMortus2]

You do know that those things don't actually happen that way, don't you? It being a somewhat abstract system; that means it doesn't model exactly how things work in reality but instead sacrifices some of that so a clear and easy-to-understand order can be imposed to make things work smoothly.

Well, actually it does...

If you and I engage in combat, we first roll init to see who takes their turn first, even though we are technically going at the same time. Let's say I get a higher init, so I take my turn before you. My intention is to attack you with my sword, your intention is to move away from me and cast a spell. What happens (due to game mechanics) is that I take my attack (assume I hit you with the sword), then you move away and cast a spell on your turn.

However, if everyone's actions were truly happening at the "same time", chances are, you would have moved before my sword was swung at you. Most likely, I would have had to move a little bit to catch up to you, and take a swing as you were still moving. Game mechanics don't mimic this, even though abstractly that is what you have to assume is happening.

 

[The Little Raven]

FFZ does something kind of similar where you still roll d20 for your initiative (adding dex and a level-based increase we call Agility), but when you take actions, your initiative count is changed in the next round by the Delay of the action (usually -5 to -10). You can regain your initiative standing by taking Wait actions. If you have a high enough initiative count, you gain extra actions in the round, and if your initiative count drops to low, you might loose your actions for the round.

Well, the Exalted system uses dice pools of d10s for actions, so I'll explain a bit how the Initiative system in it works to see if it helps you adapt the idea for your game.

When combat begins, every character that is choosing to take part in it makes a Join Battle roll. The person with the highest number of successes goes first, and his first action is considered to be tick 0 (you also write down the number of success he received; this is called the reaction count). The rest of the people go on a tick equal to [reaction count - their successes], to a maximum tick of 6 (for the first action). If someone decides to join combat after it has begun, they declare that they are joining on whatever tick is the current one, then make their Join Battle roll, and determine how many ticks pass before they can act.

Example: Joe gets 5 successes, Sara gets 3 successes, Norm gets 0, and Don decides not to join combat right now. Joe goes first (reaction count is 5), and Sara goes on tick 2 (5 - 3), while Norm goes on tick 5. Joe goes. When Sara acts, Don decides to join the battle, and makes his Join Battle roll, scoring 1 success. So, he takes the reaction count (5) and subtracts his successes (1) to come up with the amount of ticks he has to wait to join (4). So, Don goes on tick 6 (2 being current tick, 4 being the ticks he has to wait).

Different attacks/weapons/actions are given different speeds. For example, a knife is a speed 4, while a great sword is speed 6. Movement is divide into normal movement and dash (which is basically just sprinting). Move has a speed of 0, and it allows you to move your [Dexterity score] in yards per tick (it's a reflexive action, so you are able to perform other actions while moving). Dash, on the other hand, is a speed 3 action that allows you to move [Dexterity + 6 - wound penalties - armor mobility penalties] yards per tick, showing that sprinting requires more time to recover from than just walking.

Hope that helps you out.

 

[Branduil]

I don't like any of the ideas posted in this thread. They all seem either too complicated or too limited.