D&D 5E Initiative System (player choice matters) playtest results

[toucanbuzz]

I am, though, somewhat uncertain as to how to interpret your report that the DMG speed factor variant did not make player choice matter, but your modification of GI did....

It was the DMG's seemingly minimal 10% modifier (+2 for light weapons on a d20, or -2 for heavy ones) and a comment our Ranger player made. He felt that he was choosing a "quick" (short sword) weapon but it didn't feel like he went first very often. I didn't feel we could move to a d10 system, which lessened the effect of randomness, because of spells (-1 per level) as they'd never go first, and that penalized casters too much.

In a 2nd playtest with new players, we have a rogue who dual wields daggers quite often. Since I'm not getting paid, I haven't recorded our numbers, but it feels like his d4 puts him near the top of initiative orders quite a bit, though not based off his Dexterity.

 

[toucanbuzz]

@toucanbuzz How do you deal with variable duration effects? Dodge, for example could last anywhere between 2 turns (good initiative followed by bad initiative) or be non-existent (bad initiative followed by good initiative). Two options I considered when looking into variable initative was: duration doesn't include the current round, normally ending at the end of the following round (giving a benefit for a minimum of 1 round, and potentially 2) or you mark the initiative of when the effect should end, so that it will always last the same duration (such as on initiative 8 of the following round).

Your options are the 2 options our system has. The "end of the next round" is easiest to track but also gives benefits above and beyond the effect's design. Tracking the # the effect came into play is better but requires one extra layer of recording a number. It's a DM thing. If you don't mind scratching down or memorizing that effect for a turn, it's all good. I wouldn't put it on players if possible.

 

[Zaukrie]

I'm experimenting with similar things, after playing Gloomhaven some....

The way I'm going to handle changing your mind is an initiative penalty. You get to your turn, you realize you want to do something else, roll a d8 ( I think it will be 8) and go on that turn instead. It "simulates" reacting to what is going on.

As for things with durations....it seems to me that the rules intent is the key. If you are intended to have more AC until the end of your next turn, that's what you get. If you end up going back to back, before monsters, oh well. That's the price you pay for going faster in the next round. Decisions have consequences.

We'll see how it goes....

 

[Harzel]

It was the DMG's seemingly minimal 10% modifier (+2 for light weapons on a d20, or -2 for heavy ones) and a comment our Ranger player made. He felt that he was choosing a "quick" (short sword) weapon but it didn't feel like he went first very often. I didn't feel we could move to a d10 system, which lessened the effect of randomness, because of spells (-1 per level) as they'd never go first, and that penalized casters too much.

In a 2nd playtest with new players, we have a rogue who dual wields daggers quite often. Since I'm not getting paid, I haven't recorded our numbers, but it feels like his d4 puts him near the top of initiative orders quite a bit, though not based off his Dexterity.

So I don't mean to deny your experience, but one factor that you haven't described is what the other characters in the groups were doing. As I noted earlier, with either system where you end up in the order is affected as much by the choices of the other participants as by your choices. So if, for example, the Ranger was rolling d20+2 vs d20 and the rogue was rolling d4 vs d8 and/or d10, the difference is not due to the system.

 

[toucanbuzz]

@Harzel Perception definitely affects the experience. In the first go, we had a sorcerer, paladin, bard, and the ranger. No one else voiced any issues with the DMG system and making player choice matter, but the ranger player also DM's, so it may have been he saw things a bit differently.

Personally, I think it would be interesting if we removed ability score modifiers from initiative rolls altogether and only player choice affected the d20 roll with the DMG system. I noticed our sorcerer had the most difficulty because he had to modify -1 per spell level + his DEX modifier. Unlike classes that might repeatedly take the same action each turn (e.g. fighter), he never got fully accustomed to what may appear simple math.