Insightful Swordmage, simple clarification

[junkielectric]

My play group just started moving over to 4e, and I rolled a Swordmage. Looking at the feat Intelligent Blademaster, I'm not quite sure what it applies to. When I first read it, my instinct was that it only applies to +attack; however, reading through some of the threads on here, it seems that most people are reading it as applying to +attack and damage. Just requesting a clarification on this.

 

[Kordeth]

It says you use Intelligence instead of Strength when making melee basic attacks. When you make a melee basic attack, you use Strength in two places: the attack roll and the damage roll. So yes, IB allows you to use your Int for attack and damage.

 

[deleteme123456]

Actually, to be clear, it's when making a BASIC attack with a MELEE weapon. Which has caused plenty of debate about whether you can do it when making a ranged basic attack with a heavy thrown weapon (e.g., a javelin which is a melee weapon). Search around and you can find some threads.

 

[Herschel]

Generally speaking, the non-basic attacks the swordmage uses already use INT (I can't think of any that don't) but for basic attacks alone it's generally still a great feat. I'm guessing not many players will run a swordmage with balanced STR/INT. You can build a very viable Shielding Swordmage (and even a good assault version) with pretty basic strength even. Basic attacks come up fairly often for swordmages, especially with their mobility and the way their marking works.

 

[Ryujin]

Actually, to be clear, it's when making a BASIC attack with a MELEE weapon. Which has caused plenty of debate about whether you can do it when making a ranged basic attack with a heavy thrown weapon (e.g., a javelin which is a melee weapon). Search around and you can find some threads.

It may have caused debate, but it was of the armchair lawyer sort. When a weapon that has the dual categories of melee and ranged is used as in melee, it is a melee weapon. When it is used in ranged attack, then it is a ranged weapon. This seems quite simple and logical.

Generally speaking, the non-basic attacks the swordmage uses already use INT (I can't think of any that don't) but for basic attacks alone it's generally still a great feat. I'm guessing not many players will run a swordmage with balanced STR/INT. You can build a very viable Shielding Swordmage (and even a good assault version) with pretty basic strength even. Basic attacks come up fairly often for swordmages, especially with their mobility and the way their marking works.

I don't think that there are any STR based attacks. STR is used as the damage modifier in some powers though.

 

[deleteme123456]

Guess those melee-weapon-only enchantments you put on your javelin don't work when you throw it then. The debate was quite extensive, and I don't think it was really armchair rules lawyer either, there's definitely a case to be made on both sides (although I don't think your argument is the best one for your side).

 

[Ryujin]

To the OP: I multi-classed my Warlock as a Swordmage, specifically to obtain the melee bonuses in basic attacks to both hit and damage that Intelligent Blademaster gives. INT is used in exactly the same method that STR would be, when considering a melee basic attack. If your DM goes strictly by the letter of the rules, then it should apply with any melee weapon. It would be reasonable for him to apply it only to bladed weapons though, in order to keep within the SPIRIT of the character class.

After all, how many "Swordmages" use a mace?

Guess those melee-weapon-only enchantments you put on your javelin don't work when you throw it then. The debate was quite extensive, and I don't think it was really armchair rules lawyer either, there's definitely a case to be made on both sides (although I don't think your argument is the best one for your side).

It's a very simple and straight forward argument, that only doesn't apply if you throw out logic.

How about this one then? Is a versatile weapon one-handed or two-handed?

 

[deleteme123456]

Well, I'm not going to threadjack any further. Feel free to start a new or forked thread if you really want to debate it, although I suspect going to google and using site:enworld.org versatile will get you the result of the last debate, not that I was a part of it.

 

[junkielectric]

Thanks to all for the clarification.

You can build a very viable Shielding Swordmage (and even a good assault version) with pretty basic strength even. Basic attacks come up fairly often for swordmages, especially with their mobility and the way their marking works.

I ended up going assault, with Int/Con as my high stats, and its working quite well so far, though the character likely isn't anywhere near optimal.

 

[Ryujin]

Well, I'm not going to threadjack any further. Feel free to start a new or forked thread if you really want to debate it, although I suspect going to google and using site:enworld.org versatile will get you the result of the last debate, not that I was a part of it.

I'm well aware of the recent threads regarding both Intelligent "Jevelinmaster" and versatile weapons. You'll find my posts in both of them