D&D 5E Instant Death. Am I the only one who experienced this or what?

[Asisreo]

Anyway... this sounds like a combination of an extra-nasty monster, bad luck, and poor tactics. The party was failing to coordinate at all and the spellcasters were making poor choices--which isn't uncommon, I see both things fairly often, but in this case the monster's abilities were absolutely unforgiving of those errors. (The wizard's gambles with hypnotic pattern were bad bets against a "caster monster," but could at least have paid off big, and the wizard had no way to know the flayer was magic resistant. The cleric made the worst mistakes, first by not moving next to the monster so the rogue could Sneak Attack, and second by casting bless in the clutch moment instead of something that could have damaged the flayer and/or extricated the paladin.)

I agree with the bad luck and the monster being particularly harsh but I do believe the players were at least doing the best choices with what they knew on-hand.

They aren't metagamers and don't know the features, HP, traits, etc. when being introduced to a new monster until I display them. They probably even thought that it was a boss battle when they saw the flayer with a recharge ability. They didn't know how close he was to death but they did know that the fireball that the wizard threw didn't bring him down to being "bloodied." They knew they needed at least 2 more fireball-worthy attacks.

The cleric didn't want to be caught into whatever tentacle thing I put the Paladin in, because the Flayer absolutely can tentacle multiple creatures at once. He didn't know this, but the cleric is the only one with resurrection-type magic so he didn't want to risk it. He did try Spiritual Weapon and hit with that but its not enough damage to have saved the paladin even with Spirit Guardians. He was close to the Paladin for the save buff but he didn't want to be targeted immediately. He also wants to keep a 3rd-level slot handy for revivify.

Wizard really didn't have alot of options. Of the 12 spells he had access to, 2 of them were 4th-level spells which he didn't have due to the previous fight. 4 of the 3rd-level spells were counterspell, dispel magic, Fireball, and Hypnotic Pattern. His 2nd-level spells are Misty Step, Invisibility, and Rope Trick. His 1st-level spells are Mage Armor, Shield, and Magic Missile.

His options were basically do damage or Hypnotic Pattern to immediately stop everything.

I think I might be a lucky (unlucky) DM since my players say I get high numbers too often. Their saves were also tragically bad, though I kinda expected the Paladin to be stunned when I first prepped the encounter.

 

[Lidgar]

You gotta at least take a little pleasure in it though, right?

Only when its a paladin or a rapier-wielding bard.

 

[Xetheral]

It's not a mistaken ruling. This is the sum total of what dispel magic does:

"Any spell of 3rd level or lower on the target ends. For each spell of 4th level or higher on the target, make an ability check using your spellcasting ability. The DC equals 10 + the spell's level. On a successful check, the spell ends."

That's it. That is the whole effect of dispel magic. You are allowed to target "magical effects," and I suppose you could target a non-spell effect if you wanted, but the spell offers no way to actually remove such effects.

After further research, I concede that Crawford has clarified that Dispel Magic does not in fact work to dispel magical effects. I personally disagree with that reading based on the text of the spell. As I read it, the spell explicitly works to dispel magic effects, but since a mechanic to do so is not provided there is a hole in the rules. Like all such holes in 5e, it's the DM's job to fill it. But yes, RAI, I agree that Dispel Magic can't remove the stun from a Mind Blast and is limited to spells.

They aren't metagamers and don't know the features, HP, traits, etc. when being introduced to a new monster until I display them.

That's why I find it helpful to have the players have an opportunity to learn about dangerous enemies like Mind Flayers IC before actually encountering them. Foreknowledge also has the benefit of making monsters with lethal special attacks scarier. Going up against an unknown monster with an unknown lethal attack and then dying to that attack is rarely engaging or fun.

Wizard really didn't have alot of options. Of the 12 spells he had access to, 2 of them were 4th-level spells which he didn't have due to the previous fight. 4 of the 3rd-level spells were counterspell, dispel magic, Fireball, and Hypnotic Pattern. His 2nd-level spells are Misty Step, Invisibility, and Rope Trick. His 1st-level spells are Mage Armor, Shield, and Magic Missile.

His options were basically do damage or Hypnotic Pattern to immediately stop everything.

Even with no proficiency and an 8 strength, the Wizard had at least a 40% chance of success at Shoving the Mindflayer 5', which would automatically break the grapple on the Paladin. That's much better odds than any of their spells

(Also, I don't see anything in the description suggesting a Mind Flayer has the ability to grapple multiple creatures at once with its tentacles. Based on the standard grapple rules it should be able to grapple one creature at a time with each appendage capable of grasping, so that's one with the tentacles and two with its hands. (Technically speaking the Mind Flayer can use Extract Brain on an incapacitated creature it has grappled with a hand, but that defies the lore so badly I doubt most DMs would allow it.)

 

[Asisreo]

That's why I find it helpful to have the players have an opportunity to learn about dangerous enemies like Mind Flayers IC before actually encountering them. Foreknowledge also has the benefit of making monsters with lethal special attacks scarier. Going up against an unknown monster with an unknown lethal attack and then dying to that attack is rarely engaging or fun.

The problem was the encounter was meant to be the foreknowledge for adventures later down the line. I expected maybe a PC to go down but I also expected them to pick themselves back up and be wary about illithids in the future, knowing they have the ability to extract brains.

Its why I did the entire sequence of actions to begin with. Most things on the bog standard Mindflayer can be found in other illithids. And again, this wasn't a boss encounter just an unfortunate medium encounter. I don't out complete stock into CR but with a wizard, a cleric, and it being a solo encounter, I was expecting permenant PC death to be minimal.

Even with no proficiency and an 8 strength, the Wizard had at least a 40% chance of success at Shoving the Mindflayer 5', which would automatically break the grapple on the Paladin. That's much better odds than any of their spells

(Also, I don't see anything in the description suggesting a Mind Flayer has the ability to grapple multiple creatures at once with its tentacles. Based on the standard grapple rules it should be able to grapple one creature at a time with each appendage capable of grasping, so that's one with the tentacles and two with its hands. (Technically speaking the Mind Flayer can use Extract Brain on an incapacitated creature it has grappled with a hand, but that defies the lore so badly I doubt most DMs would allow it.)

Even knowing the features of a Mindflayer, I would absolutely not get within 5ft of the Mindflayer as a wizard. A wizard is generally safe from the flayer at a distance since it usually only does Intelligence saves. 40% is way too low of a risk and if you fail, the flayer may still continue with what it was doing but now everyone is in potential danger.

As for the grappling, there isn't any real limitations from the statblock. Giant crabs, for instance, explicitly say only 2 targets can be grappled in its clutches. I imagine Mindflayer's have multiple tentacles underneath their robes in an almost eldritch horror fashion since they're aberrations and therefore alien-like.

 

[Xetheral]

The problem was the encounter was meant to be the foreknowledge for adventures later down the line. I expected maybe a PC to go down but I also expected them to pick themselves back up and be wary about illithids in the future, knowing they have the ability to extract brains.

Its why I did the entire sequence of actions to begin with. Most things on the bog standard Mindflayer can be found in other illithids. And again, this wasn't a boss encounter just an unfortunate medium encounter. I don't out complete stock into CR but with a wizard, a cleric, and it being a solo encounter, I was expecting permenant PC death to be minimal.


Even knowing the features of a Mindflayer, I would absolutely not get within 5ft of the Mindflayer as a wizard. A wizard is generally safe from the flayer at a distance since it usually only does Intelligence saves. 40% is way too low of a risk and if you fail, the flayer may still continue with what it was doing but now everyone is in potential danger.

As for the grappling, there isn't any real limitations from the statblock. Giant crabs, for instance, explicitly say only 2 targets can be grappled in its clutches. I imagine Mindflayer's have multiple tentacles underneath their robes in an almost eldritch horror fashion since they're aberrations and therefore alien-like.

I'm confused about how you expected your players to learn about the Mind Flayer's Extract Brains ability first-hand without a strong likelihood of PC death? 10d10 + instant-death-at-zero-HP is nasty.

Shoving is the go-to tactic against a lone Mind Flayer. As long as everyone shoves after the Mind Flayer hits with its tentacles, the grapple will break before the Mind Flayer is able to Extract Brains. After the grapple is broken for that round, the remaining PCs pile on the damage. Even if Mind Blast recharges, Mind Blast/Tentacles/Extract Brain is a three-round combo, giving enough time that it is likely for the PCs to save and get back to Shoving the Mind Flayer.

Mind Flayers have exactly four tentacles (MM 221). 5e isn't explicit, but the lore of past editions established that it requires all four tentacles attached to one creature to extract the target's brain into the Mind Flayer's mouth. Obviously as DM you aren't in any way bound by that, but letting Mind Flayers try to grapple multiple creatures at once with its tentacles is a strong buff over the traditional expectations of what a Mind Flayer is capable of.

Mechanics-wise, I think the statblock would need to explicitly authorize the "tentacles" appendage to grab multiple foes if that were the intent. Humanoid statblocks, such as Drow, don't explicitly list the maximum number of creatures grappled either, but I don't think anyone would suggest they can grapple more than one creature with one hand.