INT mod to AC twice?

[Rystil Arden]

I'd have to agree. And considering the two who posted opinions had over 40k posts between the two of them, I'd say that's enough to get my vote!

Postcount doesn't stand for everything. I have more posts than Hypersmurf, but you should usually listen to him above me (or even Crothian)

 

[ChimericDream]

Well, the reason I look at postcount is that it shows the amount of time spent on the boards. I've only been here a couple weeks, and I've already seen the amount of information and knowledge shared here. Definitely amazing.

 

[Artoomis]

Normally they aren't, but when one of them is Hypersmurf, you really don't need much more to get a good consensus for letter-of-the-law rules calls.

Well, a narrow reading of the rules would say they stack. Technically.

However, looking more closely, they are very, very similar bonuses. Each goes away when you lose the Dex bonus to AC.

I'd rule they stack, but only in the sense that levels from both prestige classes add up together for the bonus, not that you get the bonus twice.

What books are these classes from? If from the same book, I MIGHT be inclined to think that the differecne between these two abilities was deliberate and they add together, if from seperate books I'd be MUCH less generous because it's a little too easy to create abuses in powergaming by combining material from various supplements in unanticipated ways.

Finally, there is NO reason at all for you to be bound by a narrow reading of these two class abilities since prestige classes are meant to be tweaked for your own world anyway. The trick is to make the ruling BEFORE the player is fully committed to any course of action so they fully understand YOUR rules going in. It sound like that's what you are doing.

 

[billd91]

Well, a narrow reading of the rules would say they stack. Technically.

However, looking more closely, they are very, very similar bonuses. Each goes away when you lose the Dex bonus to AC.

I'd rule they stack, but only in the sense that levels from both prestige classes add up together for the bonus, not that you get the bonus twice.

What books are these classes from? If from the same book, I MIGHT be inclined to think that the differecne between these two abilities was deliberate and they add together, if from seperate books I'd be MUCH less generous because it's a little too easy to create abuses in powergaming by combining material from various supplements in unanticipated ways.

I would be inclined to agree with Artoomis. I think getting double duty out of the Int bonus violates the general idea that that bonuses from the same source do not stack. Since the source of the bonus is Intelligence, I'd be inclined to disallow using it twice.

 

[Artoomis]

I would be inclined to agree with Artoomis. I think getting double duty out of the Int bonus violates the general idea that that bonuses from the same source do not stack. Since the source of the bonus is Intelligence, I'd be inclined to disallow using it twice.

Well, it's just a little more than the source being the same. If the source were the same but the bonuses were actually different (like an "insight" bonus and a "sacred" bonus, for example) then they would clearly stack.

In this case the logic and mechanics are also the same (some sort of intelligence-based insight, sixth sense, or whatever) such that the AC bonus does not apply whenever the Dex bonus does not, and bot function only with no armor/shield. Technically, one adds to AC directly and the other to the Dex bonus to AC, but, it works out to exactly the same thing since the one that add to AC directly goes away when Dex goes away.

I see duelist is in the DMG/SRD, whiuch does make a difference. One would normally expect (hope) that the designer of other prestige calsses would carefully balance them with those in the DMG, which gives SOME weight to allowing these two bonuses to satcak together to the maximum extent (up to twice the intelligence bonus if enough levels are taken).

In my world, I probably would simply not allow these two prestige classes to both be taken. It "smells" like cherry-picking min-maxing to me rather than any role-playing for prestige classes, and that's not the way they are meant to be used. But that's just me.

 

[Fieari]

I don't know, the concept of a secretive assassin with a code of honor requiring duels with the target sounds like a cool concept to me, and combinging the Invisible Blade with the Duelist class sounds like a reasonably way to go about making such a thing...

And there's no real question about whether the RAW says you can do it. You can. The GM is free to not allow this, of course, but I don't see a pressing reason why he should in this case. There are plenty of situations in which AC doesn't actually matter at all... and an AC monkey is going to be lacking in some other area. Let him shine where's he's good, but balance it out by having times when other characters can shine too.

 

[Deset Gled]

I'd rule they stack, but only in the sense that levels from both prestige classes add up together for the bonus, not that you get the bonus twice.

While that ruling may fit the spirit of the rules, it has absolutely no backing by what the actual rules say.

 

[Artoomis]

While that ruling may fit the spirit of the rules, it has absolutely no backing by what the actual rules say.

Well, it does, really. It has precedent with some other abilities that stack like that. I did not just think that up on my own.

And no, it does not say they work like that here, but then I said that already.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

It has precedent with some other abilities that stack like that. I did not just think that up on my own.

Sorry - I must have missed your examples. What are they?

 

[Solarious]

Of course, both Duelist and Invisible Blade require that you do not wear armor, a big hit to the AC. And both are also melee classes, where you will definitely need Constitution to survive and Dexterity to pump up your AC from loosing armor, and probably Strength if you want to be able to resist trip and grappling attempts.

You will have to make a choice between Intelligence and the physical scores needed to keep your rear end safe from the bootprints of evil...

And last of all, Duelist emphasizes the weilding of a single light weapon, while the Invisible Blade is a class all about weilding 2 daggerlike weapons! Talk about a schizo character build. It's unlikely the problem will be -too- serious.