D&D 5E Intelligence and Wisdom Checks (Skills) as GM Tool for Plot Rationing or Expository Dump

[Li Shenron]

Very Rarely.

I would rather use proficient Knowledge checks to dispense plot hints. Untrained Intelligence (rather than Wisdom) checks only for those few cases when the whole group might be really stuck with the plot.

 

[Manbearcat]

Interesting responses and interesting spread of data thus far. Thanks for that.

76 % using it

52 % using it with some level of frequency

Those 52 % of you in the "sometimes or more" category:

Are you guys all running Adventure Paths or at least some sort of metaplot-driven-game?

Those 24 % not using it at all:

Are you running hexcrawls or dungeon crawls without an overarcing metaplot driving the game?

Everyone:

Are any of you using 'Success at a Cost' (DMG 242) and could you see the following action resolution handling occur in your game?

Situation: The PCs pass through a Fey Crossroads into the Feywild and must find their way from their unknown point in an enchanted frozen forest of perpetual night to the Dawnmote (lets say its a Winter Fey guarded oasis in this place that doubles as a means to travel to the Summer Fey's domain).

To your South and West, a stand of trees rise to extraordinary heights before the darkness cuts off what lies atop them. The trees sway rhythmically with unseen wind (or something else). To your North and East, a precarious field of ice stretches out before you in all directions, eerily cracking and groaning. There is no breeze. There is nothing.

Let us say the Survival Proficient Fighter figures that maybe the heat of the Dawnmote is creating a pressure gradient which generates the unseen wind upon the stand of trees.

Wisdom (Survival) check of 18 vs DC 20.

GM (success but an obstacle that changes the nature of the situation): "It almost must be so. In the moments you think on this and get your bearings, the groaning ice fractures, sending cracking tendrils this way and that. Its coming apart beneath your feet...and by torchlight, you can see something...moving...beneath the ice...

What do you do?!

Questions:

a) Would this be a case where (i) the Fighter's action declaration and result was allowed to stipulate the location of the Dawnmote in the setting...or (ii) would this be a case where you would simply say "no" because you or your AP or your hexcrawl has a preordained "Dawnmote" location?

b) Is this an obstacle that you would allow to emerge from the Success With Cost/Complication? What do you feel about the "to be determined thing" beneath the ice? The roll generated that bit of fiction along with the icefield hazard. Yes? Too much? What other complications would you envision being appropriate?

 

[ad_hoc]

Those 24 % not using it at all:

Are you running hexcrawls or dungeon crawls without an overarcing metaplot driving the game?

I just think it's dumb to have players roll dice without purpose.

If the information is important I just give it to them rather than trying to trick them into thinking their abilities are making a difference.

 

[Tony Vargas]

There are several RPG systems that work like this.

Yeah, I'd encountered it some time ago, can't remember where, specifically...

 

[Manbearcat]

I just think it's dumb to have players roll dice without purpose.

If the information is important I just give it to them rather than trying to trick them into thinking their abilities are making a difference.

That is a fair enough point, but I would it likely doesn't apply to those who "aren't using it at all."

Most likely (though I can't be sure because I'm not these people voting), those voting in that category likely don't have "plot mandatory information that must be dumped upon the players or the game stalls out." That could be for a number of reasons (one being that there is no overarcing metaplot that drives play).

That is why I asked that particular question to that particular group of voters "are you running a type of game that doesn't entail a play-driving metaplot?"

EDIT

Just occurred to me, ad_hoc, are you saying that you're one of those people at the bottom of the poll except (a) use metaplot but (b) automatically dump metaplot info onto players (because its required to perpetuate the metaplot's trajectory) rather than having the possibility of crucial metaplot information not being exposed due to failed action resolution?

 

[Oofta]

I just think it's dumb to have players roll dice without purpose.

If the information is important I just give it to them rather than trying to trick them into thinking their abilities are making a difference.

So ability scores and proficiencies of a PC never make a difference in your game? Someone who took a feat to double their proficiency bonus for investigation gets no benefit for that feat?

 

[iserith]

Those 24 % not using it at all:

Are you running hexcrawls or dungeon crawls without an overarcing metaplot driving the game?

That is my general preference in D&D 5e. I run the odd event-based adventure from time to time but it is not ideal in my view.

Everyone:

Are any of you using 'Success at a Cost' (DMG 242) and could you see the following action resolution handling occur in your game?

Situation: The PCs pass through a Fey Crossroads into the Feywild and must find their way from their unknown point in an enchanted frozen forest of perpetual night to the Dawnmote (lets say its a Winter Fey guarded oasis in this place that doubles as a means to travel to the Summer Fey's domain).

To your South and West, a stand of trees rise to extraordinary heights before the darkness cuts off what lies atop them. The trees sway rhythmically with unseen wind (or something else). To your North and East, a precarious field of ice stretches out before you in all directions, eerily cracking and groaning. There is no breeze. There is nothing.

Let us say the Survival Proficient Fighter figures that maybe the heat of the Dawnmote is creating a pressure gradient which generates the unseen wind upon the stand of trees.

Wisdom (Survival) check of 18 vs DC 20.

GM (success but an obstacle that changes the nature of the situation): "It almost must be so. In the moments you think on this and get your bearings, the groaning ice fractures, sending cracking tendrils this way and that. Its coming apart beneath your feet...and by torchlight, you can see something...moving...beneath the ice...

What do you do?!

Questions:

It's not clear to me from your example what the fighter was doing. He or she "figures" something. Okay. He or she can figure whatever he or she likes.

 

[ad_hoc]

Just occurred to me, ad_hoc, are you saying that you're one of those people at the bottom of the poll except (a) use metaplot but (b) automatically dump metaplot info onto players (because its required to perpetuate the metaplot's trajectory) rather than having the possibility of crucial metaplot information not being exposed due to failed action resolution?

Yeah, if I'm understanding you correctly that is correct.

So ability scores and proficiencies of a PC never make a difference in your game? Someone who took a feat to double their proficiency bonus for investigation gets no benefit for that feat?

What?

 

[Oofta]

I just think it's dumb to have players roll dice without purpose.

If the information is important I just give it to them rather than trying to trick them into thinking their abilities are making a difference.

So let me try again.

I'm just trying to understand how other people who voted "never" run their games. Given that there is no right or wrong...

Do you ever call (or allow) intelligence or wisdom knowledge checks in your game? Because it seems like your answer is no.

If a DM never utilizes intelligence or wisdom knowledge checks, as a player I would never invest anything in them.

 

[Manbearcat]

@iserith

The framing of the situation and the player of the Fighter's proposition is basically distilling that moment of play into the question:

"Will the Fighter suss out the direction of the Dawnmote via natural environment-based deduction?"

The success triggers a "yes", the cost/complication triggers a new fiction of "but deal with obstacle x first."