Intelligence Warlord with a focus on Healing, damage mitigation and action enabling

Psikerlord#

Explorer
Hi all,

I've put together a Warlord variant, based loosely on the Fighter class, with a focus on healing, damage mitigation and action enabling.

http://dndhackersguild.weebly.com/blog/warlord-for-dnd-5e-and-primeval-thule

I'm keen to receive any feedback from my fellow EnWorld-ites. Are any abilities too strong or too weak? Any suggestions to tweak abilities to make them more fun, or substituting them with more appropriate/interesting abilities?

Would you play this version of a Warlord in a low magic world?

Cheers
 

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Just a general thought: too many abilities gained here.

In 5e, unless you're a spellcaster, there should be dead levels. Spellcasters can gain a new spell slot or spell on a dead level, but non-casters gaining a big feature or a feature improvement every level-up usually means the class is skewing too far to the high-powered side. I.E., you're better than everyone else.
 

Just a general thought: too many abilities gained here.

In 5e, unless you're a spellcaster, there should be dead levels. Spellcasters can gain a new spell slot or spell on a dead level, but non-casters gaining a big feature or a feature improvement every level-up usually means the class is skewing too far to the high-powered side. I.E., you're better than everyone else.

I'm not saying Psikerlord's Warlord is my cup of tea, but I'm curious as to where you got this idea from?

If you look at the breakdown below, you'll see that only spellcasting classes have dead levels; no purely martial class has any dead levels (Barbarian, Fighter, Monk, Rogue). That's the opposite of your claim. And technically, if you included spells (like you mentioned), no class has a dead level.

Psikerlord's Warlord follows the class structure of the Fighter fairly closely; some aspects slightly favoring the Fighter, others slightly favoring Psikerlord's Warlord. All-in-All, I'd say it's a wash structure-wise.

-The Fighter has 7 Levels with Ability Score Increases; Psikerlord's Warlord only has 5 (Rogue has 6, Barbarian and Monk have 5).
-The Fighter has 2 Levels with two or more features or feature improvements at once; Psikerlord's Warlord only has 1.
-The Fighter has 13 Levels that provide a class feature or feature improvement; Psikerlord's Warlord has 15 - accounting for the two fewer Ability Score Improvements.
-The Fighter has 10 unique class features and 6 feature improvements for a total of 16; Psikerlord's Warlord has 14 unique class features (but two are specifically for mass battles) and 2 feature improvements for a total of 16 also (but only 14 are used in regular adventuring).

The claim "You're better than everyone else", based on the premise you proposed, doesn't hold up.
Also, based on the relative number of features gained, "too many abilities gained here" doesn't hold up either.

If we compare the Fighter and Psikerlord's Warlord feature-by-feature for relative power (which I haven't), then maybe there'd be a valid claim...but only maybe. 5E itself doesn't balance the relative "power" of classes that exactly, so using relative power as a benchmark would not necessarily be consistent with 5E design.



Psikerlord's Warlord: No Dead Levels
- 5 Levels with Ability Score Increases
- 1 Level with two or more features or feature improvements at once
- 15 Levels provide a class feature or feature improvement



Barbarian: No Dead Levels
- 5 Levels with Ability Score Increases
- 3 Levels with two or more features or feature improvements at once
- 15 Levels provide a class feature or feature improvement

Bard: 2 Dead Levels - but as noted, each gives access to a new spell level as well as an increase in available spells
- 5 Levels with Ability Score Increases
- 7 Levels with two or more features or feature improvements at once (1 with three)
- 13 Levels provide a class feature or feature improvement (not counting spells)

Cleric: 5 Dead Levels - but as noted, each gives access to a new spell level as well as an increase in available spells
- 5 Levels with Ability Score Increases
- 4 Levels with two or more features or feature improvements at once (one with two features plus Ability Score Improvement)
- 11 Levels provide a class feature or feature improvement (not counting spells)

Druid: 8 Dead Levels - but as noted, each gives access to a new spell level as well as an increase in available spells
- 5 Levels with Ability Score Increases
- 3 Levels with two or more features or feature improvements at once (plus two with a feature and Ability Score Improvement)
- 9 Levels provide a class feature or feature improvement (not counting spells)

Fighter: No Dead Levels
- 7 Levels with Ability Score Increases
- 2 Levels with two or more features or feature improvements at once
- 13 Levels provide a class feature or feature improvement (not counting Eldritch Knight spells)

Monk: No Dead Levels
- 5 Levels with Ability Score Increases
- 6 Levels with two or more features or feature improvements at once (plus one with a feature and Ability Score Improvement)
- 16 Levels provide a class feature or feature improvement (not counting Ki points increases)

Paladin: 3 Dead Levels - but as noted, each gives access to a new spell level as well as an increase in available spells
- 5 Levels with Ability Score Increases
- 3 Levels with two or more features or feature improvements at once (one with three)
- 12 Levels provide a class feature or feature improvement (not counting spells)

Ranger: 3 Dead Levels - but as noted, each gives access to a new spell level as well as an increase in available spells
- 5 Levels with Ability Score Increases
- 6 Levels with two or more features or feature improvements at once (plus one with a feature and Ability Score Improvement)
- 13 Levels provide a class feature or feature improvement (not counting spells)

Rogue: No Dead Levels
- 6 Levels with Ability Score Increases
- 1 Level with two or more features or feature improvements at once (1st Level has Three)
- 14 Levels provide a class feature or feature improvement (not counting Arcane Trickster spells)

Sorcerer: 6 Dead Levels - but as noted, each gives access to a new spell level as well as an increase in available spells
- 5 Levels with Ability Score Increases
- 1 Level with two or more features or feature improvements at once
- 9 Levels provide a class feature or feature improvement (not counting spells)

Warlock: 4 Dead Levels - but as noted, each gives access to a new spell level or an increase in available spells/invocations
- 5 Levels with Ability Score Increases
- 1 Level with two or more features or feature improvements at once
- 11 Levels provide a class feature or feature improvement (not counting spells)

Wizard: 8 Dead Levels - but as noted, each gives access to a new spell level as well as an increase in available spells
- 5 Levels with Ability Score Increases
- 1 Level with two or more features or feature improvements at once
- 7 Levels provide a class feature or feature improvement (not counting spells)
 

I'm not saying Psikerlord's Warlord is my cup of tea, but I'm curious as to where you got this idea from?

If you look at the breakdown below, you'll see that only spellcasting classes have dead levels; no purely martial class has any dead levels (Barbarian, Fighter, Monk, Rogue). That's the opposite of your claim. And technically, if you included spells (like you mentioned), no class has a dead level.

Psikerlord's Warlord follows the class structure of the Fighter fairly closely; some aspects slightly favoring the Fighter, others slightly favoring Psikerlord's Warlord. All-in-All, I'd say it's a wash structure-wise.

-The Fighter has 7 Levels with Ability Score Increases; Psikerlord's Warlord only has 5 (Rogue has 6, Barbarian and Monk have 5).
-The Fighter has 2 Levels with two or more features or feature improvements at once; Psikerlord's Warlord only has 1.
-The Fighter has 13 Levels that provide a class feature or feature improvement; Psikerlord's Warlord has 15 - accounting for the two fewer Ability Score Improvements.
-The Fighter has 10 unique class features and 6 feature improvements for a total of 16; Psikerlord's Warlord has 14 unique class features (but two are specifically for mass battles) and 2 feature improvements for a total of 16 also (but only 14 are used in regular adventuring).

The claim "You're better than everyone else", based on the premise you proposed, doesn't hold up.
Also, based on the relative number of features gained, "too many abilities gained here" doesn't hold up either.

If we compare the Fighter and Psikerlord's Warlord feature-by-feature for relative power (which I haven't), then maybe there'd be a valid claim...but only maybe. 5E itself doesn't balance the relative "power" of classes that exactly, so using relative power as a benchmark would not necessarily be consistent with 5E design.



Psikerlord's Warlord: No Dead Levels
- 5 Levels with Ability Score Increases
- 1 Level with two or more features or feature improvements at once
- 15 Levels provide a class feature or feature improvement



Barbarian: No Dead Levels
- 5 Levels with Ability Score Increases
- 3 Levels with two or more features or feature improvements at once
- 15 Levels provide a class feature or feature improvement

Bard: 2 Dead Levels - but as noted, each gives access to a new spell level as well as an increase in available spells
- 5 Levels with Ability Score Increases
- 7 Levels with two or more features or feature improvements at once (1 with three)
- 13 Levels provide a class feature or feature improvement (not counting spells)

Cleric: 5 Dead Levels - but as noted, each gives access to a new spell level as well as an increase in available spells
- 5 Levels with Ability Score Increases
- 4 Levels with two or more features or feature improvements at once (one with two features plus Ability Score Improvement)
- 11 Levels provide a class feature or feature improvement (not counting spells)

Druid: 8 Dead Levels - but as noted, each gives access to a new spell level as well as an increase in available spells
- 5 Levels with Ability Score Increases
- 3 Levels with two or more features or feature improvements at once (plus two with a feature and Ability Score Improvement)
- 9 Levels provide a class feature or feature improvement (not counting spells)

Fighter: No Dead Levels
- 7 Levels with Ability Score Increases
- 2 Levels with two or more features or feature improvements at once
- 13 Levels provide a class feature or feature improvement (not counting Eldritch Knight spells)

Monk: No Dead Levels
- 5 Levels with Ability Score Increases
- 6 Levels with two or more features or feature improvements at once (plus one with a feature and Ability Score Improvement)
- 16 Levels provide a class feature or feature improvement (not counting Ki points increases)

Paladin: 3 Dead Levels - but as noted, each gives access to a new spell level as well as an increase in available spells
- 5 Levels with Ability Score Increases
- 3 Levels with two or more features or feature improvements at once (one with three)
- 12 Levels provide a class feature or feature improvement (not counting spells)

Ranger: 3 Dead Levels - but as noted, each gives access to a new spell level as well as an increase in available spells
- 5 Levels with Ability Score Increases
- 6 Levels with two or more features or feature improvements at once (plus one with a feature and Ability Score Improvement)
- 13 Levels provide a class feature or feature improvement (not counting spells)

Rogue: No Dead Levels
- 6 Levels with Ability Score Increases
- 1 Level with two or more features or feature improvements at once (1st Level has Three)
- 14 Levels provide a class feature or feature improvement (not counting Arcane Trickster spells)

Sorcerer: 6 Dead Levels - but as noted, each gives access to a new spell level as well as an increase in available spells
- 5 Levels with Ability Score Increases
- 1 Level with two or more features or feature improvements at once
- 9 Levels provide a class feature or feature improvement (not counting spells)

Warlock: 4 Dead Levels - but as noted, each gives access to a new spell level or an increase in available spells/invocations
- 5 Levels with Ability Score Increases
- 1 Level with two or more features or feature improvements at once
- 11 Levels provide a class feature or feature improvement (not counting spells)

Wizard: 8 Dead Levels - but as noted, each gives access to a new spell level as well as an increase in available spells
- 5 Levels with Ability Score Increases
- 1 Level with two or more features or feature improvements at once
- 7 Levels provide a class feature or feature improvement (not counting spells)

Thanks very much El Mahdi and Marandahir for your responses. I have never laid out all the class advancement levels like the above, but now that I see it, there's so very useful comparative info in there.

I have to agree with El Mahdi I think there are no dead levels for any class anymore, everybody gets something other than HP. So I think the design is ok on that front.

Are there any individual abilities you think are OP or bend the usual rules too much?
 

Are there any individual abilities you think are OP or bend the usual rules too much?

Nope, not a one. Nothing you have there is overpowered; if anything they're probably underpowered. Nothing to worry about there. It will definitely not break the game.:)
 

I would make the abilities "warlord level".

Warning shout: should be per short rest, putting it more on par with second wind. Also probably add "if this reduces damage to 0, it's a miss".
 

Hi all,

I've put together a Warlord variant, based loosely on the Fighter class, with a focus on healing, damage mitigation and action enabling.

http://dndhackersguild.weebly.com/blog/warlord-for-dnd-5e-and-primeval-thule

I'm keen to receive any feedback from my fellow EnWorld-ites. Are any abilities too strong or too weak? Any suggestions to tweak abilities to make them more fun, or substituting them with more appropriate/interesting abilities?

Would you play this version of a Warlord in a low magic world?

Cheers

Is the download file the same as the scrollable pdf? I looked over the pdf and did not see any archetypes. Maybe I missed them.

I am not aware of a Fighting style at second level being part of the standard fighter.

I would like to see a spell-less support class but why not build a solid support class and then put Warlord and Bard in there as subclasses? That seems like the way 5 is doing it and it should save you the work of building your spell-less Bard.

At level 12, Warning Shout reduces ~22 points of damage to someone every time you use a reaction. (reactionary action = reaction). That is pretty significant healing. The long rest cooldown is a little disjointed. "Sorry man, I couldn't warn you this time because I warned you last encounter."

Combat Medic is a common mantra for Warlord builds but it is something that never made sense to me. In my mind a combat medic is less of an authority/leadership/enabler focus and more of a run through bullets to get the fallen kinda guy.

Fantasy Commando and Green Berets is a valid playstyle but I think a spell-less support class would get more play if it was designed with the same space as the cleric but not tied to military application like the typical Warlord draft. That way, players that fight lots can have a support class focused on combat or a support class that has a clear advantage exploring, or one that is a socialite. There are players that play clerics to support their mates, but begrudgingly because they don't want the religion factor or spells.
 
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I am not aware of a Fighting style at second level being part of the standard fighter.

Fighting Style is a part of the standard Fighter, though they get this at 1st Level rather than 2nd.

Fighting Style does have a bit of a precedent as part of the Warlord, with the 4E version having the standard sword and board build and an archer build.

A Warlord getting this feature at 2nd Level rather than 1st seems fairly consistent to me. The Fighter is focusing more on personal fighting skills, while the Warlord is focusing more on team fighting skills with personal fighting skills as ancillary or co-important.

The long rest cooldown is a little disjointed. "Sorry man, I couldn't warn you this time because I warned you last encounter."

I envision this as there being a limit on how often a body can produce an adrenaline surge, or one simply becomes psychologically inured to such exhortations over the short run.
 
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I can see that. I think mellored addressed a fix.

I have no issue with this Warlord having a fighting style. The write up has me confused as to when the fighting class comes in and what standard fighter has a fighting style at 2nd level?
 

I can see that. I think mellored addressed a fix.

I have no issue with this Warlord having a fighting style. The write up has me confused as to when the fighting class comes in and what standard fighter has a fighting style at 2nd level?

Sorry that is a typo! I meant to say as standard Fighter 1st level!
 

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