D&D 5E Interest In A More Esoteric 5e?

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
I was very sad when the Leadership feat was yanked after 3E.

The noble background has an allusion to that sort of thing, and there are the sidekick rules and patrons that could be scavenged for a more robust system of followers, assistants and sycophants.
There is a lot of unused room there, to be sure.
I’d also be interested in a sort of gunslinger class for more high magic campaigns; maybe start at a “wandslinger” base with add-ins for those campaigns more open to firearms and the like.
Wandslinger definitely has legs, as well.
 

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Fenris-77

Small God of the Dozens
Supporter
I have more ideas for a Gunslinger class than could ever be practical to use all at once. :D My initial thought would be to base the class on the warlock chassis but bumped down to a half caster (3/4 caster? IDK) to make room for something that looks something like the Paladin's Smite ability and some other abilities (in my case based loosely on ideas directly from the Dark Tower books). Invocations is the design space for both spell-like abilities and perhaps some combat related goodies similar to Blade Pact and/or some of the combat Feats (modified, obviously).
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
I have more ideas for a Gunslinger class than could ever be practical to use all at once. :D My initial thought would be to base the class on the warlock chassis but bumped down to a half caster (3/4 caster? IDK) to make room for something that looks something like the Paladin's Smite ability and some other abilities (in my case based loosely on ideas directly from the Dark Tower books). Invocations is the design space for both spell-like abilities and perhaps some combat related goodies similar to Blade Pact and/or some of the combat Feats (modified, obviously).
What would the subclasses be?
 


Fenris-77

Small God of the Dozens
Supporter
What would the subclasses be?
I hadn't even begun to think about subclasses yet. My initial goal would be (is) to assemble some moving parts I liked, maybe more like brainstorming. Then I'll start sorting those bits into the various mechanical silos the class offers and start to think about how to change or alter those mechanical silos and their contents to do exactly what I want them to do, and also to start weighing the class options as a whole. Once I get that far I'd have a better idea about what groups of abilities and options might group usefully into subclasses (if any). I'm far more interested in building a good class than I am worried about subclasses for it. If the subclass thing doesn't look obvious I might not even bother. I'd prefer a broader set of class options generally to siloing those options behind subclasses for no reason other than I thought I should have them.

Off the top of my head though, the subclasses I'd look at, broadly speaking, would be Diplomat, Judge, and something more magical. Those are based entirely on the DT books though, not any specific thoughts about mechanics or anything. I'd probably work them like the Warlock where there are pact-specific invocation equivalents. IDK, something like that anyway. Comparing them to Paladin Oaths is conceptually the direction I'd head in, yeah.
 

vincegetorix

Jewel of the North
Some idea for archetypes:
  • Pistolero: nimble quick shot and trick shot, super fast reload.
  • Gunblade: use a special bladed gun that allow a mix of melee and range.
  • Hex-slinger: based on the trope of the cursed, undying gunslingers.
  • Gun Knight: questing knight with a pistol, uses smites spells and have an eye for deceit and trickery.**


**bonus point for features called Knight of the Rounds (where you have infinite bullet against fiend or undead or whatever) and Ex-caliber (where you deal extra lightning damage on a hit).
 

Fenris-77

Small God of the Dozens
Supporter
Some idea for archetypes:
  • Pistolero: nimble quick shot and trick shot, super fast reload.
  • Gunblade: use a special bladed gun that allow a mix of melee and range.
  • Hex-slinger: based on the trope of the cursed, undying gunslingers.
  • Gun Knight: questing knight with a pistol, uses smites spells and have an eye for deceit and trickery.**


**bonus point for features called Knight of the Rounds (where you have infinite bullet against fiend or undead or whatever) and Ex-caliber (where you deal extra lightning damage on a hit).
Either as a class feature or an 'Invocation' I was going to give the class that feat bonus where you can fire a missile weapon within 5' of an enemy without incurring a penalty. So Gun-Fu. Some John Wick style grappling shenanigans would be fun too.
 

vincegetorix

Jewel of the North
Either as a class feature or an 'Invocation' I was going to give the class that feat bonus where you can fire a missile weapon within 5' of an enemy without incurring a penalty. So Gun-Fu. Some John Wick style grappling shenanigans would be fun too.
yeah I was thinking that could be a good archetype/feature/invocation but cant seem to find a better name than ''gun-fu'' !
 

Fenris-77

Small God of the Dozens
Supporter
yeah I was thinking that could be a good archetype/feature/invocation but cant seem to find a better name than ''gun-fu'' !
I'd call it Gun-Fu, 'cause it's cool, and worry about changing it much later in the design process.

As a feature, something that combines a grappling attempt with a round from the pistol. Maybe the grapple as a bonus action? Especially if you can use the grappled creature as cover that gets hit if incoming missile fire misses by X or less.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Some idea for archetypes:
  • Pistolero: nimble quick shot and trick shot, super fast reload.
  • Gunblade: use a special bladed gun that allow a mix of melee and range.
  • Hex-slinger: based on the trope of the cursed, undying gunslingers.
  • Gun Knight: questing knight with a pistol, uses smites spells and have an eye for deceit and trickery.**


**bonus point for features called Knight of the Rounds (where you have infinite bullet against fiend or undead or whatever) and Ex-caliber (where you deal extra lightning damage on a hit).
“Death, But Not For You” -shoot someone when you hit 0, as a reaction.

“Big Iron” -You can use your pistols as a finesse bludgeoning weapon, 1d4 damage.

“And The Gunslinger Followed” -Some sort of endurance based benefit, ignore extreme weather, move at a forced March without exhaustion.
 

Fenris-77

Small God of the Dozens
Supporter
I would definitely name the abilities and invocations after quotes from the books.

I do not aim with my hand;
He who aims with his hand has forgotten the face of his father.
I aim with my eye.

I do not shoot with my hand;
He who shoots with his hand has forgotten the face of his father.
I shoot with my mind.

I do not kill with my gun;
He who kills with his gun has forgotten the face of his father.
I kill with my heart
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
I would definitely name the abilities and invocations after quotes from the books.

I do not aim with my hand;
He who aims with his hand has forgotten the face of his father.
I aim with my eye.

I do not shoot with my hand;
He who shoots with his hand has forgotten the face of his father.
I shoot with my mind.

I do not kill with my gun;
He who kills with his gun has forgotten the face of his father.
I kill with my heart
Hell yeah.
 


vincegetorix

Jewel of the North
Creed (new name for the Invocations)

Eye, Mind, Heart
Prerequisite: 2nd level.

When you would make a weapon attack roll using your gun, you can use either your Wisdom, Intelligence or Charisma (pick one when you first select this Creed) instead of Dexterity.
 

Fenris-77

Small God of the Dozens
Supporter
Creed (new name for the Invocations)

Eye, Mind, Heart
Prerequisite: 2nd level.

When you would make a weapon attack roll using your gun, you can use either your Wisdom, Intelligence or Charisma (pick one when you first select this Creed) instead of Dexterity.
I'm torn over what the main stat should be. In the books it's force of will, which is one of CHA or WIS. I wouldn't open it up though. I might even do a Monk/Barb armour thing with the main stat and DEX. Gunslingers are fast.
 

vincegetorix

Jewel of the North
Creed
I'm torn over what the main stat should be. In the books it's force of will, which is one of CHA or WIS. I wouldn't open it up though. I might even do a Monk/Barb armour thing with the main stat and DEX. Gunslingers are fast.
Maybe something like being able to ignore the reload property when unarmored and +2 AC.

I'd give them Evasion and Uncanny dodge at higher level, like the rogues and monks.

for Eye, Mind, Heart, I'd go for Wisdom, if we are to open it to only one stat.
 

vincegetorix

Jewel of the North
Creed
The gunslinger followed

When a creature moves more than 5ft away from your space, you can use your reaction to move up to 20 ft closer to where it ends its move without provoking AoO.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Creed (new name for the Invocations)

Eye, Mind, Heart
Prerequisite: 2nd level.

When you would make a weapon attack roll using your gun, you can use either your Wisdom, Intelligence or Charisma (pick one when you first select this Creed) instead of Dexterity.
If a creed can change your attack stat, creeds should be level 1, IMO.
 

Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
I love D&D 5e, but it's not my favorite D&D 5e-like game. Why don't I play my favorite then? Because of the large amount of good players in my circles who play 5e and don't need/want something different that fills the same niche. So homebrew which would then need to be accepted is facing the same barrier to playing my favorite D&D 5e-like game, and if I'm going to overcome that barrier I'd play that.

That said, from a theoretical point of view, I'd definitely be interested.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
I love D&D 5e, but it's not my favorite D&D 5e-like game. Why don't I play my favorite then? Because of the large amount of good players in my circles who play 5e and don't need/want something different that fills the same niche. So homebrew which would then need to be accepted is facing the same barrier to playing my favorite D&D 5e-like game, and if I'm going to overcome that barrier I'd play that.

That said, from a theoretical point of view, I'd definitely be interested.
Okay, so your group wouldn’t use something like Adventures In Middle Earth?

That’s a bummer.
 

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