Interested in checking out non-D&D fantasy "old school" ttrpgs

[Micah Sweet]

Talislanta advertised itself as being distinctly and deliberately different from D&D and "typical" Western fantasy, and all editions of the game except the 6th are available free on their website.

Talislanta – Still No Elves!

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I miss ads in Dragon Magazine...

 

[Libertad]

I just picked up Rolemaster at Gencon, so give me a bit and I'll be happy to sell you on that!

Take all the time you need, I'm not going to be picking up anything until I get my paycheck.

 

[Wolfram stout]

I miss ads in Dragon Magazine...

I have posted before on those ads. Man. I loved the one for Dragon raiders... "christians Learn To Fight at the Gates of Hell". The game was not remotely about assaulting hell.

Unrelated to the above but to those old ads: I got to visit NYC last year and go to The Compleat Strategist. I pulled out an old Dragon and showed my wife their ad and how long that had been on my dream list.

 

[Aldarc]

Probably the easiest "old school" (or at least long-time) non-D&D fantasy TTRPGs out there would be RuneQuest (Starter Box). There is also Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, Pendragon, and Ars Magica, which all came later. There is a relatively new starter box for Pendragon as well.

@TheSword is probably the first person here who comes to mind if one wanted to ask about the best way to get into Warhammer Fantasy.

 

[TheSword]

Take all the time you need, I'm not going to be picking up anything until I get my paycheck.

So a couple of questions if you don’t mind…

• Do you play face to face or online?
• How important is a physical book to you?
• Do you prefer published adventures or do you definitely want to write your own?
• Do you need the rules all in one book?

I can’t recommend WFRP enough but there are three different editions I could recommend and it will depend on how you feel about these things. They all have the same vibe but different pros and cons.

 

[Libertad]

So a couple of questions if you don’t mind…

• Do you play face to face or online?
• How important is a physical book to you?
• Do you prefer published adventures or do you definitely want to write your own?
• Do you need the rules all in one book?

I can’t recommend WFRP enough but there are three different editions I could recommend and it will depend on how you feel about these things. They all have the same vibe but different pros and cons.

I play online.
A PDF is preferred due to the above.
I can do either published adventures or writing my own, but for new systems I'd prefer a published adventure to see what's expected.
I'd prefer having the rules all in one book, or if they're spread out that the multiple rulebooks be cheap.

 

[TheSword]

I play online.
A PDF is preferred due to the above.
I can do either published adventures or writing my own, but for new systems I'd prefer a published adventure to see what's expected.
I'd prefer having the rules all in one book, or if they're spread out that the multiple rulebooks be cheap.

Great that makes recommendations easier. Last question. What platform do you play online?

 

[Mannahnin]

WFRP was published in 1986 so to me its not "old school". But that is just me.

Yeah, Ars Magica, Pendragon, and WFRP are all mid-eighties games. Whether that is « old school » is debatable.

'87, 85', '86, respectively.

It is amusing to note that they're all 40 or approaching it, but it is valid to observe that they're not part of the first wave of RPGs, that first burst of publications when a) no one had any idea what they were doing / b) folks weren't really building / iterating on existing ideas yet. The only thing the first wave games were reacting to was OD&D.

Looking at the games suggested so far, there are lots of good options, but these three and GURPS are definitely 80s games which I would argue have somewhat more intentional design. Less "naive". Tunnels & Trolls, Chivalry & Sorcery, and RuneQuest are all major games from the initial 70s wave. All of them were made in reaction to D&D and attempt to improve on the concept in different ways.

T&T is deliberately more accessible, because Ken St. Andre found the OD&D rules pretty opaque. It's simplified, abstracted more, it only uses d6s, and it embraces humor more.

Chivalry & Sorcery wants to be more historical and medieval than D&D. More detailed and simulationist. IIRC character generation tries to impose statistical demographics and has you roll for stuff like race and alignment rather than just choosing them.

RuneQuest has its roots also in making D&D more simulationist and detailed (the combat system deriving from the Perrin Conventions for OD&D and also being informed by the designers' knowledge of recreationist combat in The Society for Creative Anachronism), but also embracing the more Classical period-influenced bespoke campaign world of Glorantha rather than a medieval one like C&S.

 

[Micah Sweet]

So a couple of questions if you don’t mind…

• Do you play face to face or online?
• How important is a physical book to you?
• Do you prefer published adventures or do you definitely want to write your own?
• Do you need the rules all in one book?

I can’t recommend WFRP enough but there are three different editions I could recommend and it will depend on how you feel about these things. They all have the same vibe but different pros and cons.

WHFRP 2e is my preferred. 1e was pretty great too.

 

[TheSword]

I play online.
A PDF is preferred due to the above.
I can do either published adventures or writing my own, but for new systems I'd prefer a published adventure to see what's expected.
I'd prefer having the rules all in one book, or if they're spread out that the multiple rulebooks be cheap.

Ok, so I will present two options.

If you play on Foundry then you should absolutely go with 4th edition WFRP released by Cubicle 7. It is massively supported and automated. The modules are extremely cost effective and contain all the rules within the modules. The core foundry will set you back £17. You should absolutely pick up the starter set for £12. This is an absolute steal. The products production values are excellent. The rules are full of evocative Warhammer flavour and the adventures are really solid. Totally different to the kind of thing you would see in Pathfinder and D&D. PDFs come out a bit more. £35 for the CRB and £15 for the starter set.

If you want some reasons why I love WFRP 4e then check out this thread, which goes into a lot of detail...

Thread 'A few things I really like about WFRP'

May 19, 2024

So I’m about to convert another group to WFRP 4e that I previously played D&D with. That will be the fourth group now - all with campaigns still running 6+ months later and in one case years later - which is nice. I thought I would give examples of a few of the things that I really like about the system that makes it different to D&D and it’s various incarnations.

One of the first big differences is the removal of resource management as the main method of challenging the PCs. Not a per-day, or per-encounter ability in sight. Spells can be freely cast without slots though they do carry an...

• TheSword
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If you play on another system then the decision isn't quite so simple because you won't get the benefits of pre-written modules through the foundry system. That said most WFRP editions have home versions on Roll 20 and a few other platforms. You can get pdfs of all the editions rules (except 3rd) and as @Micah Sweet says there is a lot of love for 2nd edition. I would say the 2nd ed rules are simpler and less crunchy particularly the magic side. There is less freedom in advancement and progression but its easier to get your head round.

However there are two things that mean on the balance even if you prefer simpler systems you should still go with 4e. Firstly the quality of the Starter Set. Its the best RPG product I think I have ever seen. A group could spend £20 pick that up on its own and have 4-5 great sessions to get to know the system. The Setting guide has packed enough in to last an entire campaign and the handouts and pre-gen characters are beautiful. I'm going to post a review of the Starter Set at some point soon as I am nearly finished with the adventure that comes with it with a new group and I really do think its the best rpg product I've seen

Secondly the Enemy Within campaign has been update and re-released for 4e. I'm getting close to finishing it for the third time (this run took 3 1/2 years of fortnightly play) and it gets better every time. There is a reason it is repeatedly in the top 3 (if not the top) of rpg campaigns of all time. I wouldn't jump straight in with the Enemy Within because its a big investment in time and effort but I would start with the Starter set adventure as training and then if your players enjoy the rules create new characters and start again with Enemy in Shadows.

Whichever edition I would really take the time to check out WFRP and the Ratcatcher Discord. Its a great community of about 8,000 players and folks are really helpful with lore, ideas and rules questions.

For Sigmar, Karl Franz and the Empire!!!