D&D 5E (2014) Interrupting spellcasting

[Tony Vargas]

Certainly, but my concern is that when combined with the concentration rule and "save ends," it creates a situation of double-jeopardy for spellcasters, with multiple opportunities to disrupt their actions and negate the spell. Interrupting a spell was a lot more important when you were stuck with it for a predetermined duration once it was cast.

Back in classic D&D, when spells could be interrupted when cast, there were also spells that required ongoing concentration that could be broken - sometimes with disastrous results, like your 16HD conjured elemental turning on you. So, no nothing I suggested, above, seems all that bad compared to what it was like back in the day. Even if we discount tradition, though (and 5e that would be out of character for 5e), 5e casters have a tremendous amount of flexibility when it comes to what spell they decide to cast and when. So if you do find that the few save-ends concentration spells are placed in 'double jeopardy,' you can cast then less often (only when conditions are ideal) or not at all - there's plenty of other spells, and always cantrips to fall back on. Finally, what your talking about is essentially a 'balance' consideration, and in 5e, the DM is Empowered to enforce balance at the table, the mechanics don't have to (and already don't) impose much balance on the game.

Also, a round is currently six seconds. Trying to interrupt a spell that can be cast that quickly seems like it'd be just as difficult to interrupt as a regular melee attack.

Six seconds is not a terribly short time compared to how quickly an arrow can be loosed or a sword swung. In six seconds, a high level fighter can attack 10 times (4, doubled for action surge, plus a bonus action attack and a reaction OA. It's not that the fighter is turning into the Flash, at 1st level, he was swinging as fast and as often, it's just that as he levels more of those swings have a real chance of connecting. And, many of those swings are 'interrupted' - parried - as a matter of course all bundled up in the abstraction of the round. That's an idea that's been with the game since the beginning.

Spells have never been anything but individual spells, they've never been characterized as many split-second spells, perhaps one of which goes off per round.

 

[Fleetwood C. DeVille]

Many thoughtful replies.

I did not consider the "double-jeopardy" angle with so many concentration spells out there.

The genesis of the question is I am playing a rogue and the bad guys just added a Red Wizard to their ranks. Having a handy crossbow I thought I would just keep an eye on him and send some quarrels his way if things got hot. Guess I need a "Plan B".

 

[Tony Vargas]

The genesis of the question is I am playing a rogue and the bad guys just added a Red Wizard to their ranks. Having a handy crossbow I thought I would just keep an eye on him and send some quarrels his way if things got hot. Guess I need a "Plan B".

Yep. As a DM, you could bring back the sorts of things we're talking about. As a player, all you can do is declare an action and hope the DM rules in your favor. By all means, describe what you want to actually do & accomplish rather than just saying you 'Ready' an action, your DM just might go for it.

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

Wizards still have lower HP, so lining up a sneak attack with that extra damage would still be a solid option.

Another way to deal with a wizard is find ways to eliminate their line of sight - depending on their spells, a number of them require that.

The genesis of the question is I am playing a rogue and the bad guys just added a Red Wizard to their ranks. Having a handy crossbow I thought I would just keep an eye on him and send some quarrels his way if things got hot. Guess I need a "Plan B".

 

[pepticburrito]

save DCs scale with character level, while save bonuses might not scale at all.

In 3.5/3.75 save DCs scaled with modifier. The modifier was expected by the game designers to progress rather nicely via magic items. Magic item progression were assumed in the stat blocks of NPCs. Effectively, save DC scaled with level in 3.5/3.75.

The result of this is shown the PFSRD http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/monsters/monsterCreation.html

Notice, the difference between a good save and bad save in 3.75 maxes out at +5. I suspect the fact that proficiency system in 5e has been highly influenced by intended balance in 3.5. It has all the additional assumptions removed, from magic items to starting modifier differences, and it's laid out in a simple progression.


The biggest difference is that spell save DC doesn't depend on spell level in 5e. This makes lower level spells a more relevant as you progress. I can see lots of balance reasons for doing in, especially in the context of how magic was reworked in 5e vs 3.5.

 

[Jaelommiss]

In six seconds, a wizard, no matter his level, can cast /one/ spell.

The correct number there is actually six, though generally three.

A third level wizard can Misty Step (bonus action), Firebolt (Action), and Shield (reaction) all in one round.

If you add a couple of fighter levels then you can add another Firebolt through Action Surge.

A multiclassed Rogue (thief) 17 / Wizard 3 can take two turns in the first round of combat. Using Misty Step and Fire Bolt on both turns plus a Shield after each turn will give six spells in the time it takes to finish one round, or one spell every second.

 

[pepticburrito]

there were also spells that required ongoing concentration that could be broken - sometimes with disastrous results, like your 16HD conjured elemental turning on you.

In 5e, having your concentration broken while maintaining Conjure Elemental will result in a 12HD elemental turning on you.

 

[Tony Vargas]

The correct number there is actually six, though generally three.

I seem to remember a stricter limit than that. With a bonus action, for instance, you could also cast cantrip with your action, but not some other spell. Though reaction spells would be an exception (and, obviously, must be very fast to cast, indeed).

 

[pepticburrito]

With a bonus action, for instance, you could also cast cantrip with your action, but not some other spell.

Theoretical max using multi-classing: Tiefling Rogue (Thief) 17/Fighter 2/Bard 1: On the first round you now can take two turns from being a thief. That's two bonus actions and two actions (4 total spells cast). Action surge gives you another spell. Tiefling at third level get's Hellish Rebuke, which is cast as a reaction. It is now possible to cast 6 spells a round. Healing Word X2 (Bonus Action), Any Cantrip X2 (action), Action Surge (any cantrip), and Hellish Rebuke (reaction).

It's a silly thought experiment, but it is possible.

 

[Rhenny]

I could see a DM allowing pcs or foes to attempt to grapple a spellcaster grabbing and pinning the casters arms so unless the caster breaks free, the caster would not be able to cast spells that require gestures (unless the caster had the proper metamagic).