Interview with Scott Rouse, Chris Perkins & Bill Slavicsek

[mxyzplk]

My thoughts on the DI

OK, so I've been a Dragon subscriber since about #100 and a Dungeon subscriber since #1. I also work in Web administration and have a lot of experience with content management, search, and collaboration tools.

First point, print vs online: For a magazine with a variety of content, I still like print better. I can read it in bed, on the can, in a plane, in Iraq, in jail, etc. If one of my players wants to play some new race/class/whatnot from a recent issue I have I can hand it to them to take home and read. I seldom need to access my mags from somewhere else (work, a friend's house) and in most of the cases where I do I brought it along for that express reason.
Surveys at our company (high tech manufacturing) indicate that the Web is the preferred means for people to get their information on our products, but only by a slight margin. We are not considering discontinuing our print catalog anytime soon! I would strongly suggest a dual print/online delivery, print on demand, or frequent (quarterly or more) print compilations to avoid subscriber loss in the 50% range.

Now, the online format does have advantages that can be leveraged. Here's what I'd like to see in a Digital Initiative that would overcome the disadvantages of moving from print and convince me to pay an equivalent amount to what I am right now:

1. A content management system can allow you to localize content more easily. WotC could leverage all those eager MMORPGers in Korea, Germany, etc. by managing and localizing all D&D content. For us, the European and Asian markets are quite large and are the fastest growing sectors in many consumer sectors.

2. Offering online access to all the print products I purchase (for no additional charge). This is a hurdle that so many tech and business book publishers have already figured out how to do securely, most books I buy come with an online PDF version now... Unique code in the front, and the entry screen asks you for it and "the third word on page 12". Or many similar schemes. Not rocket science.

3. Value. The fact is, common wisdom is that a 2 page PDF is NOT worth the same as a 2 page print article, so don't charge as much, or even 75% as much. 50% is pushing it. And there's a lot of difficulty in meaningfully previewing smaller bits of content. I'd try to bundle content, if not in complete "issues", in at least chunks of relevantly themed stuff. For example, all of the content that would normally be related to a Dragon theme issue, sell as a chunk of 3-4 articles on whatever it is.

4. Advertising. Use advertising! It defrays cost and is one of the value adds people get from print magazines; it turns you on to stuff you may not have heard about. However, don't use advertising then charge for content as if you don't. Ubisoft and other computer game publishers learned about that the hard way this last year by including in-game advertising but still charging full normal price; PC Gamer (and the consumers) reamed them about it.

5. Extended content. We hear a lot about content that didn't make it into an issue or sourcebook because "there wasn't room." Pay the author for it and put it in! I'd never buy a PDF instead of a print sourcebook, although if the print version was 96 pages and the PDF was 128, that's a different thing entirely...

6. Openness. Don't move away from the OGL. Let other publishers "into" your online tools. If there's a character builder, let other companies supply openly defined "rules packs" or whatnot to add in feats, classes, etc. from their sourcebooks. (The great Byakhee freeware CoC character generator has a nice open architecture of this sort.) Heck, let other companies sell their content as part of the mix.

7. Free stuff. Don't take the current articles you're offering on wizards.com and suddenly make them pay, no one will appreciate that. Besides, the best sales model is "everyone gets a free login", there's a batch of free content but many hooks to buy paid content as well.

8. Archives. Old Dragons, Dungeons, and other products are already in electronic format (I have the Dragon CD) and have little incremental value. Provide access to that for people that are "subscribing". Don't charge much for old product. Note how for a long time people only made TV series available as expensive, 1-2 episode per purchase things. Now suddenly entire seasons are on one affordable set or downloadable for $1.99 per ep - sales skyrocketed.

9. Collaboration. Let everyone rate, comment, and tag the content, free and paid. Don't succumb to the temptation of saying "oh, they might rate some article bad then no one will buy it." It's valuable feedback for you, and people with money to spend will get something else as long as there's enough content available.

10. Updated content. The current erratas and FAQ and whatever other rulings are lame in their consumability. If there's something that needs to change, the beauty of online content is that it's eminently changeable.

11. Super cross-referencing. Another poster already mentioned this - if I look at "ghoul", I want to see its entry, its picture, updated errata, relevant rules and relevant rulings, references to ghouls in products I own (adventures prominently featuring ghouls, etc.) AND references in products I don't own. That's your hook to cross-sell. Discussions tagged with "ghoul" from the forums. Pictures tagged with "ghoul".

12. Search. Everything searchable using a good engine, ideally with custom dictionaries. Faceted navigation. Index all the products, print and online.

13. User contributed content. Let people contribute content! If you "reject" an article you don't think's worth paying for, allow it to be published for free on the site. Brand it differently (a value of the Dragon and Dungeon brand names is that many DMs make the default ruling that content from them is "official" and can be used without preauthorization in their campaigns, so you'll want a similar discriminator) but still put it there. Right now people are forced to contribute content (monsters, classes, whatnot) inline on forum threads, a nonconsumable format. If they could enter characters, monsters, etc. into custom wiki templates (that could of course be rated, commented on, searched, etc.) that would be very valuable.

14. Try open sourcing stuff. Pretty much all the previous attempts at "DM software" from TSR/WotC have been... less than ideal. The Web doesn't make it any easier. You've got a huge community of people that would be all about pitching in if you let them. Heck, you could probably get volunteer content translation, editing, and other such.

15. Long tail. There's plenty of people out there that want Dark Sun, Greyhawk, etc. content. If it's free/cheap to generate it, do so. With the print format you had to say "Well, one Greyhawk article a year..."

16. True engagement with the user community. Blizzard and WoW, for all its sales, is successful despite their customer service and forum moderation, which are among the worst in the industry. Pushing content via blogs etc is good, but also engaging with the customers is invaluable.

17. Oh yeah - no DRM. If someone buys it, they buy it.

So in closing, I would urge you to design the DI from the metaphor that these people are participants in the process of creating D&D, not simply "customers" or "players." Learn from your mistakes and the mistakes of other companies in their online initiatives.

Sincerely,
Ernest

 

[Dragonblade]

Here is what I'm looking for from the DI:

Information Lookup
I want to be able to search by subject (wiki-style) and get all relevant information for the subject.

For example, if I search for ghoul, I want to see the following on the page:
- stats for the ghoul
- single illustration
- notes on what has been errata'd from the print version
- official rulings and clarifications on the ghoul and his abilities
- expanded rules added after the print version (for example, what you can learn about the ghoul using Knowledge Religion from the Know Your Enemy articles)

Essentially, everything on the main page should be the basics of what I need in order to use a ghoul as DM. However, I also want links to the following:
- alternate illustrations of the ghoul
- expanded articles about the ghoul ("Ecology of the Ghoul")
- D&D Miniatures information such as which sets have ghoul figures and the downloadable cards for those figures
- related information to the ghoul (ghasts, undead in general, the turning rules...)
- a link that imports the ghoul straight into a monster/character generator so I can advance him, add levels or templates, alter his feats or skills, and then print out the resulting character sheet.

That's just a sample for a monster, but I'd want similar style things for classes, races, magic items, rules, etc...

Character/Monster ToolKit
I want a character generator that allows me to build my PCs/NPCs/Monsters. This should be able to:
- create and level-up characters (obviously)
- equip those characters with weapons and magic items and see their stats change appropriately
- take monsters and alter them (add class levels, advance them, add a template, change feats or skills)
- create houserules for my campaign (maybe gnomes get +2 CHR in my world)
- allow any of this to be stored on-line and downloadable by those with access (like google docs)
- easily import characters and monsters from on-line adventures
- incorporate the magic item creation rules
- create new content such as monsters, spells, magic items, etc...
- allow me to create new, but very basic, classes, races and prestige classes
- print the resulting character or monster in a variety of formats
- [Bonus Feature] incorporate the rules for Alter Self, Polymorph, Alternate Form, Reincarnate, etc... so you can easily alter your character for these events

Mapping Toolkit
I want to be able to create maps for adventures. Features:
- Create maps that are indoors/outdoors/underground
- add door, furniture, columns and other basic features
- add traps, secret doors or monsters that can be toggled on or off when showing the map to the PCs
- a "fog of war" that hides sections of the dungeon until you click on them
- easily import existing maps from on-line adventures
- build or break down the map with dungeon tiles (if possible)
- break out sections of the map so that they can be printed out at different scales, all the way up to a scale compatible with miniatures
- the ability to import the maps into an on-line game

Adventures
I want on-line adventures with these features:
- the ability to import maps, monsters and characters into the toolkits above
- the ability to automatically alter the adventure within 2-3 levels of the intended level
- the ability to automatically convert the adventure to different settings
- included links to the Information Lookup pages described above
- artwork for new monsters, unusual rooms, etc...
- well formatted for the whole adventure to be printed out if necessary
- generate lists of all D&D Miniatures used in adventure
- the ability to easily use the adventure in on-line play (see 2 sections down)

Combat Tracker
I want an on-line combat tracker I can use with on-line play or with a PnP game:
- enter all combat participants, either manually or from toolkits
- set initiative order, either by handling the die rolling itself or allowing the DM to set it manually
- reorder initiative when someone readies an action or delays
- track damage and current status of participants (dazed, sickened, sleep, bleeding, etc...)
- track spell and effect durations on participants
- a dice roller than can display a result of any set of dice being rolled
- if the characters/monsters have all stats entered, allow the program to optionally handle dice rolls internally. You could ask it to make a DC 20 Fort save for a monster, or see if a bleeding character stabilizes, or just have monster A attack character B and it would show the result and damage

On-Line Play
I'd like to be able to meet on the internet with other players and play live. We would need:
- a central room the would contain a map of the current encounter (uploaded from Mapping Toolkit), links to characters (Character Toolkit), and a chat window
- to chat privately with individual players
- move into the Combat Tracker for combats
- allow players to move characters on the maps in the combat
- option to auto-handle attacks of opportunity, concealment calculations, grapple rules, and other similar things.
- track changes to character sheets (XP, damage, loss of spells, used equipment)
- easily upload on-line adventures to be used in this arena
- be able to pause the adventure and store everything in its current state so that the game could be resumed later

D&D Miniatures
- quickly find miniatures by monster type for later purchase
- run skirmishes on-line
- have on-line tournaments

This is all the functionality I'd want out of DI (that I can think of right now), although I would certainly not expect all of this on day 1, or heck, even year 1. I would, however, like to see this be the roadmap for DI, so that I know these sort of things are coming down the pipe, and things that are planned for are easier to implement in the long run.

For the content, I want to be able to access all the monsters, spells, feats, etc... that are out there. I'd be disappointed if I were limited to only the core books. I'm guessing this will be handled through micro-purchases or varying subscription levels, there's simply no way for you to know I own a Monster Manual III and allow me to digitally browse all the monsters in it. Repaying for that content doesn't particularly excite me, but I have no alternative practical solution. For the future though, I'd like the purchase of printed content to also allow access to digital content.

Thanks for the chance to let me add my 2 cents.

-Scot

Brilliant!! I want everything on this list!! I'd just like to add one thing.

I like the Wiki model for information and rules lookups, but I'd also like a homepage that lists all the content in a table of contents format. That way I can browse topics without having to enter a specific search term.

 

[Zaruthustran]

16. True engagement with the user community. Blizzard and WoW, for all its sales, is successful despite their customer service and forum moderation, which are among the worst in the industry. Pushing content via blogs etc is good, but also engaging with the customers is invaluable.

This is all good stuff, but I wanted to pull out this point. I'd like to see WotC come up with a "Major Nelson" style blog. A semi-independent public place for 1:1 engagement between WotC and the community. Mat Smith's monthly preview article is a step in the right direction; he should be given more visibility and leeway.

-z

 

[Arawen]

Suggestions

Regarding the digital initiative, there seem to be two sets of suggestions here.

1. On line equivalents to Dungeon and Dragon

The only advantage that I could see to a totally on-line format would be that it should be extremely cheap compared with a print magazine and completely searchable. Though I subscribe to Dungeon in print form, I would not pay money to subscribe to a web or pdf version. I believe most customers would want to keep whatever they paid for i.e. monthly content, not access.

Printing on line material costs money, takes up too much room to store, and loose sheets are inconvenient to flip through casually on the go. Computer print outs really do not last very well either. The ink fades and the paper is poor quality. In contrast, my old Dragon and Dungeon magazine issues are still in good shape after many years.

I'd suggest that the bar for successful on-line content selling will be a considerably higher price/value ratio for content because the format is much less attractive and the product will be far more emphemeral. Further, I would not want to waste my own paper and ink printing advertisements.

One way to address this partially might be to have a lot hyperlinked content, so that adventures can be scaled and stat blocks be printed with one click.

Still, my guess would be that hardcover compilations would sell better. I would hope that the variety of adventure styles and short adventures in Dungeon's existing issues would continue. Dungeon's mystery adventures especially appealed to me, and, generally I have found much more I can use to DM there by browsing the magazine than in WotC's combat heavy megadventures.

That said, I cannot imagine paying money to browse Dungeon and Dragon on my PC, even though I read my paper magazines cover to cover. PDFs and web sites just do not have fun factor for me.

2. Computer aids to play D&D

This has also been mentioned by many users, but I really cannot see why offering web tools like a character generator would require cancelling these beloved magazines.

If I were to pay for a character generator instead of using a free one like PCGen, I would like to have it downloadable and usable without internet access. It's hard to imagine renting a service to be like DMGenie when one could instead pay once. Similarly, there are many free virtual tabletops, dice rollers, chat programs, and VOIP programs like Skype. Charging monthly fees for these would not make much sense. There are quite a few mapping programs like Dundjinni as well out there, so again the question is what would a more expensive subscription package add.

The only way I could see charging more than once for these services working is if the on line service was so amazing in quality, in usability, simple elegant interface, and on-line community matching facility that it would take tabletop D&D, on-line virtual tabletop D&D and Neverwinter Nights to a new stage, while still providing good value at an extremely low price for users without laptop or internet at the gaming table. (For the record, at present I cannot imagine paying subscription fees for on-line tools that I really do not need or want).

To the designers of this so-called digital initiative, please think boldly and elegantly, is there the equivalent of an Apple IPod revolution for pen and paper RPGs?

I really do not think so, but I think that's the kind of corporate model to follow for next generation step.

Whatever you do, please do not consider WotC's current web site a good model. It's cluttered, hard to navigate, and takes longer than it should to find what you want.

 

[SemperJase]

I still like print better. I can read it in bed, on the can, in a plane, in Iraq, in jail, etc.

And this is exactly why the online subscription model does not work. People do not like this type of content in an online format.

I have my doubts about the advertising too. Online advertising doesn't seem to be comparable to print advertising. I don't believe that online advertising brings in the same revenue as print. Online advertising is highly perishable. Once the user clicks off the screen, it is gone. The print ad is there everytime the reader opens the magazine. Google makes it work through economies of scale. They are able to push a wide variety of ads to millions of people making a few cents per ad very profitable. An online Dragon wouldn't have that audience. I don't see it being add supported.

Personally, as much as I love D&D and the magazines, my online time is already spread out among too many sources. I read news online, I check out message boards, I read quite a few blogs, in addition to about 20 podcasts. I'm not going to increase my time online to read a subscription source. I kept subscribing to the magazines because I like to unplug.

I've been wanting to subscribe to PC magazine but my wife convinced me I was already spending to much on other magazines. Apparently I don't have that problem now.

 

[caudor]

Regarding the digital initiative, there seem to be two sets of suggestions here.

1. On line equivalents to Dungeon and Dragon

2. Computer aids to play D&D

I agree. Maybe by providing a silver/gold subscription plan they can provide both.

The major problem with the current character generators (like pcgen, etc.) is that we are unable to use 'sources' since the CMP license was not renewed. For me, having access to sources is the 'big deal' that WotC could provide with a character generator.

If I have to manually type in information from 15 + source books to play non-SRD options, then I might as well just do it on paper. The Tome of Magic classes are a good example...I don't want to type all that in. The whole appeal of the DI to me is making the game easier to prepare/play, not just seeing stuff on a computer screen.

 

[lurkinglidda]

It is my belief that they have gathered input from us before the announcement, through polls and questionaires and stuff like that.

...stuff like, oh, say, lurking? I didn't get my screen name by chance!

 

[Ghendar]

And this is exactly why the online subscription model does not work. People do not like this type of content in an online format.

Unfortunately, those of us who feel that way are apparently in the minority. We don't matter to WotC anymore. My beef is not with the idea of DI, it's the idea of DI at the expense of print magazines. That's why Paizo still counts me as a customer (with Pathfinder) and WotC doesn't (with DI)

 

[lurkinglidda]

Hi Linae,
One point about the answers we have received/will receive, I much prefer the straightforward "We can't discuss that right now" over ambiguous responses or non-answers. Specifically I was thinking of the response to the question about factors involved with replacing Dungeon/Dragon with DI instead co-existing; the answer was "Our online content plans will replace the printed magazines. That aside, we are still very much in the business of producing printed products." That's not the answer to the question!

You're right: that really wasn't an answer. We can't discuss that right now.

However, I think they wanted to find a way to tell folks that printed products are not going away because of the DI and this seemed like a good place to throw that in.

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

I agree. Maybe by providing a silver/gold subscription plan they can provide both.

The major problem with the current character generators (like pcgen, etc.) is that we are unable to use 'sources' since the CMP license was not renewed. For me, having access to sources is the 'big deal' that WotC could provide with a character generator.

But now you're more boned than before. At least with PCGen or ETools, you had (a) hobbyist programmers working on code and/or datasets (and even the source yourself, if you were so inclined), (b) the ability to create your own or tweak existing stuff, and most importantly (c) the ability to use third-party publishers' stuff. No way will you see that in the DI.

So, unless you're running a pure 100% WotC game (and granted, I'm sure a lot of people are) the on-line character generator is going to be a big step back from what we had 6 months ago.