Intimidate variant

[Talon5]

Personally, I'm of the opinion that after a certain point in a character's career - intimidation is just not going to be effective. I find it hard to believe that a 20th level adventurer, who's made his career butchering countless nameless horrors, is going to flinch at anything short of an angry god. The check should be against something like 5x the target's level IMO...

With you on that. Problem is that with good and bad rolls, a high cha character with Skill Focus and an 18 cha a 20th lvl fighter with a 10 Wis is gonna get intimidated by a single digit lvl Bard/Rogue.

(Knowing ENWorld there is someone out there right this second figuring out the math to prove how wrong I am with this or prove just how unbelievable this is.)

If we could find a way to get lvls or BAB or something involved then it could really help.

 

[Geoff Watson]

Sorry, wrong thread.

 

[Hammerhead]

With you on that. Problem is that with good and bad rolls, a high cha character with Skill Focus and an 18 cha a 20th lvl fighter with a 10 Wis is gonna get intimidated by a single digit lvl Bard/Rogue.

(Knowing ENWorld there is someone out there right this second figuring out the math to prove how wrong I am with this or prove just how unbelievable this is.)

If we could find a way to get lvls or BAB or something involved then it could really help.

Well, HD already add to the defender's roll. However, pretty much all characters can get nailed by low level characters with interaction skills. A first level rogue probably has a good chance of tricking (via bluff), diplomatizing (the DCs are flat), or even purloining their stuff via sleight of hand. Lots of high level characters probably aren't going to have sufficient (read as any) spot or sense motive. Diplomacy doesn't care about level at all, just how much you need to change their attitude. There aren't really any defenses against persuasion at all. At least intimidate allows some counter measures.

EDIT: Dang it, I forgot to log out of the HH account. Victim is speaking.

 

[hong]

Intimidate is all about fear.

The right save to resist fear (when there's one) is always Will.

Note that there is only a save when magical or extraordinary fear is involved: ie, when an external force is meddling with your brain. Not generic bullying, whether or not physical force is involved.

Thus, Wizzies have better willpower than goons.

For certain values of "willpower" anyway.

 

[coyote6]

Okay, then, why not add BAB and base Will save to the check. All the wizards and barbarians are happy now.

And the bards, clerics, and druids are really happy.

Maybe let the defender add the better of their base Will save or base attack bonus? Though that doesn't actually do much for the wizard, unless they've done a lot of multiclassing with other strong Will save classes.

PS: As for torture, I'd be willing to bet torture should either involve saves using the better of Fort or Will, or include saves vs. both. And/or use the DMG variant about using different ability modifiers, and make it a base Fort + Wis modifier save. Hmm, does the BoVD have any rules on torture? I forget.