Intimidate with STR

[BryonD]

Meh.

Strength might impress, awe or frighten, but charisma is what makes them do what you want.

That is exactly correct.

Spending a feat to use STR in place of CHR would be cool in my book however.

Also, I'd tend to give Silvertongue Sal a circumstance bonus if he has Muscles Mel there to use in his examples of why you should do things the way Sal would like you to.

 

[Ottergame]

Spending a feat to use STR in place of CHR would be cool in my book however.

I wouldn't, since someone can already take Skill Focus and Persuasion to boost up a dinky intimidate skill.

 

[Pielorinho]

In some ways, I think this question acts as a good determiner for whether you treat the pasttime more as a cooperative story or as a game. Game folks, I think, prefer the charisma-only intimidate; folks that approach it as telling a story together prefer the flexible intimidate.

That said, I'd only allow it in certain, logical situations. Whereas the charisma-based intimidator might be able to scare a prison guard into letting her go ("You can let me out now--or I can escape sometime during the night, slit your throat, and deliver your severed head to your loving wife, and can't you just imagine her screams?") the strength-based intimidator isn't going to be able to do much ("Uurgh! Og smash!" doesn't impress a gaoler very much).

But in a barfight, things might be different. The 22 str barbarian wants the fighting to stop, so he picks up a table and snaps it in half. People might not choose his side of the argument, but they sure start paying attention, and the ones that judge him more powerful than themselves are likely as not to stop fighting. They may run away, they may start trying to pacify him, they might shout for the guards--but they'll stop fighting.

I'd allow it because it's fun. Heck, I'm the charisma-monkey in our group, with a feat and a racial bonus on my charisma checks, and I still love watching the party tank intimidate people. It leads to a better story for us, leads to a better time for us.

Does it bend the rules a bit? Sure. But the rules are there to serve the stroy, as far as I'm concerned, and when a rule gets in the way, it gets bent.

Daniel

 

[UltimaGabe]

Oh, trust me, I hate it when rules get in the way of the story, or when the focus becomes more on achieving a "perfectly balanced game" than having fun. However, in this case, I think it's less of a rules issue and more of a logic issue. I used to think that Strength should be used instead of Charisma, because I thought that all Charisma was was sweet-talking and being eloquent and smooth of tongue. However, through real-life instances, I came to realize that only a very small amount of Charisma is smooth words and eloquence- it's force of personality. A low charisma character isn't the loud, rude, brash individual, it's the one nobody notices. The one that people see, but disregard. The one that just can't get your attention no matter how hard he tries. In that sense, it's not simply a matter of the rules getting in the way of gameplay- it's a matter of people thinking Charisma is something it isn't. If you know exactly what Charisma is, then there's no other ability score for Intimidation other than Charisma. Strength without Charisma is not intimidating at all.

 

[silburnl]

A low charisma character isn't the loud, rude, brash individual, it's the one nobody notices. The one that people see, but disregard. The one that just can't get your attention no matter how hard he tries.

100% agree. I get very bored when players make Cha a dump stat and then claim that therefore their character is a surly, antisocial bugger, all darkened mien and "I'll be back".

The character might want to *present* as the nightmarish offspring of Dirty Harry Callahan and an Ahnuld Terminator, but if they are weak in charisma they actually come *across* as Vincini from 'The Princess Bride".

Regards
Luke

 

[Pielorinho]

Different ways of playing Charisma, I guess. I don't want players to have to pay through the nose in order to have a memorable personality, and I don't want fighters to be useless during noncombat scenes (which my games have a whole lot of). I've never seen anyone play a Dirty Harry character with a high charisma, and I don't feel deprived .

When a sorcerer makes strength a dump stat, I'm fine by that, and it's got specific numeric limitations that don't much affect how the player plays the character's personality. The sorcerer can work around the strength limitations via other means--using crossbows, picking up a handy haversack, etc. I try to make charisma the same thing: I don't want it to limit a player's fun in creating and playing a personality, and I want there to be ways to get around the limitations.

It's all about the fun.

Daniel

 

[RigaMortus]

Intimidation is all about Charisma. Strength has pretty much nothing to do with it. Strength is a purely physical-based attribute, and Charisma is a purely mental or emotional-based attribute. When I think of someone trying to intimidate another person, I picture their tone of voice, their facial expressions, their words and their hand motions or general body language. All of these little "characteristics" of intimidation are non-physical, or Charisma based. If you used Strength in place of Charisma, you wouldn't be reacting in the same manner. Strength doesn't determine your tone of voice, your words or your body language. It determines if you hit something, if you hurt something, or if you break something. And if you are doing that to a target, it is not intimidating but attack or torturing. A big difference...

As for barbarians with a Cha of 6 who are dumb-looking, it is true that their screaming madly won't be that intimidating, however if this same barbarian had a 22 Str and managed to bend the guy's sword in half... that's a different story.

J from Three Haligonians

What you describe here is NOT a Strength check, but a Charisma check with a possible circumstance bonus. This is how I would handle the above scenario.

DM: Make a Strength check to see if you can bend the sword (DC would be something high, at least a 25 if not 30 - 35).

If the check succeeded, I would give a circumstance bonus to the intimidate check (Charisma based). Probably just a +2, which is standard, but I might even give a +4 to the check based on the fact he just bent a metal weapon in his hands. That would be the correct way to resolve the above scenario IMO of course...

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

We have two charismatic characters in the party.

Character A is a dark brooding figure short on words and big on presence (Stirling Mortlock to any rugby fans). He is arrogant, assured and fearless.

Character B is a religious disciple with high reaching connections and a calming, good spirited influence (sort of like Tana Umaga). He is reasonable and humble.

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Frankly I am of the opinion that for any character to have serious cool factor, they must have good charisma.

 

[cybermonkey]

If the check succeeded, I would give a circumstance bonus to the intimidate check (Charisma based). Probably just a +2, which is standard, but I might even give a +4 to the check based on the fact he just bent a metal weapon in his hands. That would be the correct way to resolve the above scenario IMO of course...

Perhaps that is what is needed: A strong person performs some act to display his strength and adds a circumstance bonus to the Intimidation check. This can also be done when a Charimatic leader has one of his goons perform some great strength act.

I keep picturing the executioner in "Shrek" punching the hand-held mirror to the other mirror to talk.