Intolerable!

Can you imagine being Paizo in that situation? You're printing a magazine, paying a license fee, and the company you're paying a license to is running an online service that provides the exact same sort of content?

I see absolutely no reason the digital initiative and Dragon/Dungeon couldn't have coexisted. Many products that provide "exactly the same sort of content" manage to coexist out there. It's called competition, and in general, is a very good thing for the consumer.

Really, the digital/paper issue didn't have to be a binary, either/or decision. Its a false dichotomy.

Even if WotC still chose to end Paizo's license in favor of their digital version of the magazines, there was still no reason to kill the print versions of the magazines. At least none has been provided by WotC- others have provided reasons like Monte Cook's theory that Dragon & Dungeon were outperforming WotC's product.

After all, as I've pointed out elsewhere, there are many periodicals that have a print version coexisting with a digital edition with identical (or even bonus) content: Guitar Player, the NY Times, The Economist, to name but 3. I could name others.
 

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Dannyalcatraz said:
Really, the digital/paper issue didn't have to be a binary, either/or decision. Its a false dichotomy.

Even if WotC still chose to end Paizo's license in favor of their digital version of the magazines, there was still no reason to kill the print versions of the magazines. At least none has been provided by WotC- others have provided reasons like Monte Cook's theory that Dragon & Dungeon were outperforming WotC's product.

After all, as I've pointed out elsewhere, there are many periodicals that have a print version coexisting with a digital edition with identical (or even bonus) content: Guitar Player, the NY Times, The Economist, to name but 3. I could name others.

Print costs MUCH MUCH MORE than electronic. I don't understand why others don't understand the ramifications of that part of the issue.
 

Yes, it does cost more to offer print than digital periodicals- I never said it didn't, and even pointed it out in other posts, because it cuts both ways.

According to everyone who has a reason to know, the magazines were running in the black and showing an (admittedly) slight overall increasing trend in circulation.

People talk about "only 50k subscribers out of 5m players," but I don't see how merely changing the format will perforce result in a net increase. Those 4,950,000 other players weren't buying the magazines for a variety of reasons: they couldn't get it where they lived (for whatever reason); they borrowed someone else's copy to read; the content didn't interest them. Etc.

They killed a successful product in favor of an as yet untested product, and by doing so, WotC is gambling that the majority of those 4,950,000 had no access, and not that they were people who would never buy the magazine regardless of media format because they didn't like the magazines at all or were borrowers instead of buyers.

And by doing so, they've alienated a certain (as yet unknown) portion of their established subscriber/purchaser base.

50K birds in the hand are worth a lot more than an uncertain number of birds in the electronic bush.

They could have continued publishing the successful products, generating positive cash flow. As you correctly point out, e-media are cheap, and the costs of translating the data to the website would be virtually nil- it probably already exists in digital form if they use anything resembling a modern computer/WP layout and editing system. Thus, the additional costs of running a coexisting digital version of the magazines would be minimal. Then they would be able to track their numbers, seeing which product was doing best for them. Then they could decide whether the business is best off by producing print only, digital only, or a mix of both products.

There are economic formulae for this that companies use all the time when they produce a variety of goods, like parts and finished goods. They make a certain amount of money doing each, and have to decide what is the optimal amount of production that should go to each category of goods. Sometimes, the parts can be mass produced for a low price, but have a low profit margin, while the finished goods require additional costs to manufacture, but high profit margins. Sometimes, the finished goods have even lower profit margins than the parts, but they have the dominant market share for products in the category.

Any MBA- heck, anyone who knows a little stats-level math- can do that analysis. Its cheap, but time consuming.

But WotC, despite having MBAs on staff, didn't take the time to do this basic business analysis. I know this because (as has been pointed out) the digital product does not yet exist, and apparently will not at any time co-exist with the print product.

Of course, the analysis can be attempted after the fact, but the data won't be of the same quality- the contemporaneous numbers simply won't exist. And by the time the analysis might reveal that a mixed production would have been better than digital only, it could be too late to woo back the people who left in anger.
 
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Mistwell said:
Print costs MUCH MUCH MORE than electronic. I don't understand why others don't understand the ramifications of that part of the issue.

And print versions are much much more convenient than electronic as well. I can take them anywhere and don't need a power supply to read them. There have been quite a few of us who have understood the ramifications of that part of the issue and have taken issue with it.
Plus, the brunt of the costs of the print versions of Dungeon and Dragon have been borne by Paizo and not WotC, right? So, how does that figure into WotC's calculus?
 


billd91 said:
Plus, the brunt of the costs of the print versions of Dungeon and Dragon have been borne by Paizo and not WotC, right? So, how does that figure into WotC's calculus?

Probably something like this:

Amount of money paid to WotC = Income from magazines - cost of production - overhead from Paizo + maybe a license fee

So for each dollar the mags brought in, deduct production costs, and Paizo costs and maybe add a small percentage for the license. That gets sent to WotC.

For the digital initivative it looks something like this:

Amount of money that goes to WotC = All of it - production costs - upkeep of platform

It seems that WotC has deemed that the latter equation is better for their bottom line.

/M
 

Whisperfoot, I thought your post was excellent. I particularly enjoyed the line
Whisperfoot said:
You just ruined my childhood (which has been over for the better part of two decades)
- very funny. It's not sarcasm/snark, it's satire. Don't listen to people who can't take a bit of, imo deserved, mockery.
 

Thurbane said:
It's possible, but I highly doubt it. If WotC were that magnanimous, they probably would have relicensed the mags and let them co-exist with their online initiative and future (adventure/module) releases...

And had that happened, it's doubtful all this angst and anger would have taken place at all.
 

Mistwell said:
Not true. The time for the actual cancellation of Dragon and Dungeon has not arrived. We just got an early notice that it is going to happen. At the actual cancellation, we will in fact see the specific of the replacement in detail.

At the risk of starting a fight, you're splitting hairs here. Both mags have in fact been canceled. It's a done deal. The early announcement doesn't change that fact.

Mistwell said:
What should have been viewed as a positive (the early notice of a change) has been blamed instead as a negative (the lack of specific at the time of that early notice). They COULD have done it just like last time - tell us about the notice of cancellation along with specific on the replacement in the last issue itself. And, perhaps they should have, since their attempt to offer advanced warning didn't help them.

I agree with this. Giving us a tangible idea of what was going to replace the mags (much like what Paizo actually did) would have gone a long way towards lessening the outrage we have seen.
 


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