D&D (2024) Introducing back 2/3 casters and leaving clerics and wizards as only "full" casters?

[Horwath]

in 3.5e/PF1 we had category of 2/3rd casters and they filled a nice role.

if wotc return that level of spellcasting, would it be good if bards, druids, sorcerers and warlocks fall into that category?

with less spellcasting, there would be more class resources to spend on special features and still be balanced.

Druids could focus more on wildshaping and animal/elemental companios,

bards could have more leader features,

sorcerers could have more and powerful metamagic and origin features

warlocks could have more invocations, and I guess that short rest mechanics are going bye-bye for the most part, so would go warlock as short rest spellcasting class.


New spell levels would be acquired at class levels:

1st level; 1st level spells
4th level; 2nd level spells
7th level; 3rd level spells
10th level; 4th level spells
13th level; 5th level spells
16th level; 6th level spells
19th level; 7th level spells


while we are at this, 1/3 casters could get a little bump in spell levels speed:
from 1/3 to 2/5 casting, that is new spell level every 5 levels instead of 6,
they would still cap at 4th level spells, but few levels earlier;

3rd level; 1st level spells
6th level; 2nd level spells
11th level; 3rd level spells
16th level; 4th level spells

 

[Baldurs_Underdark]

Ye gods, bards with more leader features? If there's any class in all my games that's chaotic, it's the bards. I really never see them as natural leaders. Natural charlatans yes, leaders no.

Although I don't see any big problems with this suggestion, I think the change is much too big to be included in a 5.5E.

 

[aco175]

I like the idea. They could have more class options to choose from. I liked 4e where at a level you have options to make your PC a bit different. An example might be that a 9th level fighter could choose between Indomitable, another second wind, or a free attack 1/rest. You take away magic but give more class flair to make a warlock more lockey.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

part of me wants to see even cleric and wizard brought down to 2/3 casters... the other full casters brought to 1/2 casters and the half casters become 1/3 casters (then kill the eldritch knight and arcane trickster)

 

[Umbran]

I am not sure, as a matter of design, that balance of power is so exacting that there's sufficient granularity to really have 1/3,1/2, 2/3, and full casters be meaningfully distinct.

 

[CreamCloud0]

If there was the option I’d have just 1/3, 2/3 and full casters, some of the full casters get dropped to 2/3 for more design space and the current 1/2 casters are dropped to 1/3 but with certain ‘magic focus’ subclasses that would bump them up to 2/3 caster progression.

Edit: OP’s suggestion to bump 1/3 progression to 2/5 would be nice to implement with this too.

Edit-Edit: I’d actually keep bard as a full caster but actually treat it as such rather than the jack of all trades, wizard, cleric and bard as the black, white and red mages respectfully.
Strip bard of expertise(that can be spread around much more) and bardic inspiration is rebalanced to run off spell slots like paladin’s smite.

 

[delericho]

Gut feeling: it's not for me. I actually like the casters that we have - my issues are mostly that non-casters don't have a diverse enough skillset, and we're missing an arcane half-caster class (a Blademage or similar).

 

[Laurefindel]

2/3 casters would mess with the current multiclassing rules, which I like but could be changed along with the caster levels.

It would also mess with the current (attempted) balance at 1st, 3rd, and 5th character levels where features are made in comparison to 1st, 2nd, and 3rd-level spells respectively. Could a new category of features be made to offer the power boost of 5th level knowing that the class will also get 3rd-level spells at level 7? I guess it could...

But ultimately, I fail to see what this change would bring other than just shake things a little for the sake of shaking things. Did you have any specific goals in mind or a specific issue to address?

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

My take?

I'd move cleric and druids back to 7th level spells. Warlock would be as-is. Bards at 1/2 caster. Paladin and Ranger at 1/3 (my version with a little more casting).

Boost the power-level to balance the spell lost.
Rebalance the spell list so that the divine spells are attainable within 7th level.

 

[Horwath]

Gut feeling: it's not for me. I actually like the casters that we have - my issues are mostly that non-casters don't have a diverse enough skillset, and we're missing an arcane half-caster class (a Blademage or similar).

We always have to have one basic mundane class.

That is the fighter in 5E.

And I have nothing against having just natural abilities in fighter, even if they are at the farthest possible peak of natural abilities.
So fighter has to be fastest in combat(most attacks with extra attack feature), best training(several fighting styles), battlemaster a core concept of class and thoughest(d12 HD).