Invisible Blade from CW -- almost TPK'd my group.

Gotterdammerung

First Post
Hi folks,

I almost accidentally TPK'd my group over the weekend with an Invisible Blade NPC. It was a fantastic and memorable battle, so I don't feel THAT bad about it, but I want to make sure I got some rulings right.

- Fighter4/Rogue2/InvisBlade5.
- She dual-weilded corrosive daggers +1.
- She had 10 Bluff ranks with a +2 CHA bonus and skill focus. (+3)
- She had the ability to always take 10 on bluff checks to feint in combat.
- DC for her feints was 25

Now, with her feat assortment she was attacking four times per round. Her 5th level ability gives her a free-action feint. I assumed this free action applies to each of her attacks in the round, since a free action is not limited in numbers of uses in a round.

What AC bonuses get stripped away during a feint? I know Dex gets removed. Does Dodge, Expertise, and other movement-based AC bonus get taken away?

Also, what are the "relevant modifiers" referred to in the Bluff skill's feinting description? A humanoid can add BAB to his sense motive skill, plus "relevant modifiers" does this mean wisdom bonus? does this mean strength bonus if he's weilding a melee weapon?

The way I ran it, all dodge-related bonuses were stripped off during the successful feint. Also, only BAB, wisdom bonus, and sense motive ranks could be used against the DC 25 bluff check.

due to the fairly high death rate among the party, I may have erred.

Your thoughts, please?



-eric
 

log in or register to remove this ad

I'm not too familiar with the Invisible Blade. Are you sure their free action Feint doesn't have a limit of once per round (or some other limiting factor)? If not, then it is really the DM's call on how many free actions are allowed. Let me ask you this. Would you allow someone with 4 attacks, and the Quick Draw feat to attack with a weapon in hand, drop the weapon, free action quick draw a new weapon, do their second attack with that, drop the weapon, free action draw a new weapon, etc. If you have no problem allowing this, then I don't see the problem in allowing multiple free action Fenints. I personally wouldn't.
 

Gotterdammerung said:
What AC bonuses get stripped away during a feint? I know Dex gets removed. Does Dodge, Expertise, and other movement-based AC bonus get taken away?

Also, what are the "relevant modifiers" referred to in the Bluff skill's feinting description? A humanoid can add BAB to his sense motive skill, plus "relevant modifiers" does this mean wisdom bonus? does this mean strength bonus if he's weilding a melee weapon?

The way I ran it, all dodge-related bonuses were stripped off during the successful feint. Also, only BAB, wisdom bonus, and sense motive ranks could be used against the DC 25 bluff check.

AC bonuses : Any time a character loses his Dex bonus, he loses Dodge bonuses to (SRD). Combat expertise grants a Dodge bonus (SRD).

Sense motive : I would allow full Sense Motive skill bonus (including any synergy or fet bonus) + BAB. So does the SRD.

Bluffing as a free action : I'd feel free to limit the ability to one use per round.

Else, you can allow a cumulative +1 circumstance bonus for each previous feint attempt (at least during the encounter) : the more you cheat an opponent, the more cautious he'll get.

Hope this helps.
 

I don't see anything wrong with what happened, Eric.

Yes, dodge bonuses are gone when DEX bonuses leave, this includes the bonus from combat expertise.

The only thing I'd say, was the Bluff is opposed by Sense Motive. The opponent sets the DC, with his (or her) Sense motive roll, and appropiate modifiers, such as BAB, in this case.

Mike
 

Almost.

SRD said:
Feinting in Combat: You can also use Bluff to mislead an opponent in melee combat (so that it can’t dodge your next attack effectively). To feint, make a Bluff check opposed by your target’s Sense Motive check, but in this case, the target may add its base attack bonus to the roll along with any other applicable modifiers. If your Bluff check result exceeds this special Sense Motive check result, your target is denied its Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) for the next melee attack you make against it. This attack must be made on or before your next turn.

Feinting in this way against a nonhumanoid is difficult because it’s harder to read a strange creature’s body language; you take a –4 penalty on your Bluff check. Against a creature of animal Intelligence (1 or 2) it’s even harder; you take a –8 penalty. Against a nonintelligent creature, it’s impossible.

Feinting in combat does not provoke an attack of opportunity.
 
Last edited:

Antoine said:
AC bonuses : Any time a character loses his Dex bonus, he loses Dodge bonuses to (SRD). Combat expertise grants a Dodge bonus (SRD).

Sense motive : I would allow full Sense Motive skill bonus (including any synergy or fet bonus) + BAB. So does the SRD.

Bluffing as a free action : I'd feel free to limit the ability to one use per round.

Else, you can allow a cumulative +1 circumstance bonus for each previous feint attempt (at least during the encounter) : the more you cheat an opponent, the more cautious he'll get.

Hope this helps.
Too harsh on one free action bluff per round IMO.

And if you are being cautious about an Invisible Blade who keep poking you... pull back. No need to invent stuff.

Mike
 


There are going to be creatures that taking a full attack from is unwise. Stay 31' away. Now he only does 1d4 per hit.

Use a hold person spell.

The invisible blade is a powerful sneak attacker that probably requires spells or ranged attacks to defeat, but then so is an greater invisibility rogue. If you stand there and let him get his full allotment of sneak attacks on you each round, you are going to have problems.

But then again, the same can be said of the frenzied berserker or a suitable dragon. And if they underestimated him, good. :) That's the whole point of the class. Now they'll fear dagger wielding foes. :D
 

mikebr99 said:
What are you trying to point out Jeremy?
Ack, I missed that he had already listed BAB. I thought he was leaving that out of the equation.

Also, another thing, if your vital organs are getting punctured, it might be wise to cast or drink a potion of blur.
 

Jeremy said:
There are going to be creatures that taking a full attack from is unwise. Stay 31' away. Now he only does 1d4 per hit.

Use a hold person spell.

The invisible blade is a powerful sneak attacker that probably requires spells or ranged attacks to defeat, but then so is an greater invisibility rogue. If you stand there and let him get his full allotment of sneak attacks on you each round, you are going to have problems.

But then again, the same can be said of the frenzied berserker or a suitable dragon. And if they underestimated him, good. :) That's the whole point of the class. Now they'll fear dagger wielding foes. :D
Well, I'll have to agree with that whole damn thing!

Mike
 

Remove ads

Top