Invisible Blade from CW -- almost TPK'd my group.

[Plane Sailing]

What are you trying to point out Jeremy?

I think he was pointing out that the DC isn't set by the sense motive +BAB, but rather the DC is set by the feinters bluff.

 

[mikebr99]

I think he was pointing out that the DC isn't set by the sense motive +BAB, but rather the DC is set by the feinters bluff.

But it is:

If your Bluff check result exceeds this special Sense Motive check result, your target is denied its Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) for the next melee attack you make against it. This attack must be made on or before your next turn.

Mike​

 

[Gotterdammerung]

The party in this case had several other atackers to deal with, so this one NPC was really able to close in and start causing havoc without much effort. They lost a couple rounds dealing with a Sleet Storm, threw a couple of lightning bolts/fireballs which she evaded with ease, and ended up just not getting in their effective attacks before she did.

in planning, I just hadn't realized that this PrC might be quite so deadly. Two of the other assassins (spellsword, and modified Fist of Hextor) were so ineffective it was almost funny. Spellsword didn't get a single effective attack in. FoH got two solid strikes, but was otherwise a pushover.

All of comparable levels, too. All in all, great battle but unexpectedly deadly. I appreciate the insight into what bonuses are lost in a feint... thanks!


-eric

 

[RigaMortus]

I like cheese.

 

[mikebr99]

Spellsword didn't get a single effective attack in. FoH got two solid strikes, but was otherwise a pushover.
-eric

Well, did he not use a quickened truestrike, with full power attack, and a really high level arcane strike?




Mike

 

[Gotterdammerung]

Ha!

I totally forgot about Arcane Strike, which he had but I forgot to make use of. Oops. The Spellsword spent one round double-moving, one round botching a concentration check to cast a spell, and two rounds trying to get a shocking-grasp charged sword to hit something. Didn't have Quicken Spell feat, so by the fifth round the PC's had one assassin taking a dirt nap.

-eric

 

[Antoine]

Too harsh on one free action bluff per round IMO.

I agree, it's the drastic option.

As to pulling back or being cautious : we hit the rules limit here.

If I'm cautious, or expect an opponent's attempt to bluff me, I'd use Combat Expertise to the maximum, or fight defensively.

But, by the rules, this cautiouness doesn't apply to the DD world (since dodge bonus are waved when Dex is).

Part of the problem comes from the cumulative effect of feints by rogues.
If you're a fighter, and feint an opponent to get around his defense (that's waving Dodge and Dex), the action seems reasonnable.
If you're a rogue, and feint an opponent to deal superior blows (extra d6s), the action seems reasonnable to.
If you're a DD rogue, feinting = reducing the opponent, aware and cautious of your actions in the middle of a melee to the effective attitude of a street bystander.

Seems balanced as a standart action (since you're continuously fighting your opponent but dealing 0 damage every odd round).

But what a mighty free action indeed !

Compared to :
Rapid Reload - turns a move action to free action, multiple possible uses in a round (w/ light X-box)
Quicken spell - turns a standart action to a free action, at some cost, usable once each round

 

[The Souljourner]

Sounds like they used the wrong tools to deal with the invisible blade. Obviously fireball and lightning bolt aren't going to cut it. What you needed was to concentrate some melee damage on the rogue, along with un-evasionable spells (like magic missile). Plus, sneak attacks are good, but they do no good if you can't hit your opponent. A sword and board fullplate fighter type should have been able to stand right next to her and get missed a lot. It's not like they care about losing their +1 dex bonus.

Really... I don't think this should have been a TPK. It's possible that in the heat of the battle, the PCs just didn't adjust fast enough to figure out how to deal with this new threat. MAybe next time they'll be more ready.

As for the free action feint... it is just that -a free action which can be done as many times as you want. Most people generally think it was intended to be limited to once per attack. Once per round is a heck of a lot less useful, and it should be pretty good for a class that requires the use of inferior weapons and is otherwise almost identical to a rogue.

-The Souljourner

 

[Jeremy]

A fighter/rogue/invisible blade has what for a will save normally? Don't throw reflex saves at him. Use hold person or dominate person or even just a fear spell.

 

[Gotterdammerung]

The will save was the InvisibleBlade's weakest point. All fighter-types in the party have opted for medium to light armor and have used dexterity, expertise, and fighting defensively to make themselves really formiddable against high-BAB attackers and touch attacks. They needed that tactic to survive Nightfang Spire.

Unfortunately, the party's cleric was the one who had the worst time in the Sleet Storm. Couldn't see a thing, move an inch, or successfully dispel the storm. By the time her hold person's, dooms, bestow curse's, or whatever could even be brought into the battle it was too late.

the upside to getting your cleric trapped in a sleet storm is at least she survived to raise those PC's who fell.


-eric