(IR) 4th ooc-thread of the 5th IR

[Serpenteye]

If I am wrong about any of the above, then it can be rightly said I do not know what I am talking about.

I'm not saying it...

 

[Serpenteye]

So, assuming I wanted to root out a lot of the opposition for, say, the Grandwood (75% to 95%), I have one try, and it would cost me 1 PL (0,375 rounded up), I guess?

One try, no rounding.

The other alternatives are to win them over with words or just burn them out. Purging a territory militarily is usually an extremely bloody affair which will reduce the value of the territory considerably. There's a chance that dissent will increase and parts of your armies might join the opposition. Counter-infiltration is usually a better alternative.

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

(tries again. Second attempt)

Posted by Serpenteye:

TOTAL IC OF EDENA OF NEITHS' POWER: 364,55 IC

PL:

Regular PL: 350
Elite PL: 50
Epic PL: 2 (not including PC)
Eclavdra: 2 epPL
The Regalia of Lordly Might: 1 epPL

TOTAL VALUE OF PL: 1350 rPL

-

From Edena, again:

My power is worth 364.55 IC (Industrial Capacity) prior to Turn 1.
At the BEGINNING of Turn 1, I must allocate the 364 IC as PL and/or PP.

-

If I allocate IC as PL, this represents:

Building Regular Armies (it costs 1 PL per Regular Army built.)
Creating Spies. (it costs 1 PL per Spy created.)
Attempting Infiltration. (It costs 1/10th the IC value of the area Infiltrated, to attempt to Infiltrate it. Attempting to Infiltrate an area worth 400 PL, costs 40 PL to Infiltrate.)
Detecting Enemy Spies (it costs 1 PL per attempt.)
Attempting to stop or reverse Infiltration (It costs 1/10th the IC value of the area Infiltrated - if my entire power was being Infiltrated, it would cost 36.4 PL to try and stop the attempt, or reverse the Infiltration by one step.)
Attacking and Defending (indirectly, since Armies attack and defend. PL is used to build armies, and they do the attacking and defending.)

If I allocate IC as PP, this represents:

- Increasing the overall infrastructure of my power, so that my base IC will be higher next turn. (This assumes everything involved in building a civilization and culture.) My base IC next turn will be increased by the PP expended times 0.5. 100 PP spent for this purpose increases my base IC by 50.

- Increasing the technological level of my power, advancing in the technological arms race. (This assumes everything involved in researching technology, building industry, creating technomancy, and so on.) Every 50 PP spent increases my rank by one (or 60, or 70, if I want non-fiend, non-polluting technology and technomancy.)

- Upgrading Regular Armies to Elite Armies. (This costs 10 PP per Regular Army upgraded.)

(Creating and/or finding magical items to augment my Regular Armies to Elite Armies.)
(Creating and/or finding artifacts/relics to augment my Regular Armies to Elite Armies.)
(Finding and/or creating and/or subduing and/or otherwise gaining the service of powerful monsters, to augment my Regular Armies to Elite Armies.)

-

In addition to deciding whether to allocate IC as PL and/or PP, I must decide if I will sacrifice Epic PL to conduct research in the Magical Arms Race.
Epic PL spent in this way are lost. If I spend Eclavdras' 2 Epic PL for this purpose, Eclavdra is killed.
Upon the attaining of 50 Epic PL worth of sacrifice, I gain 10th level magic.

-

Now ...

On Turn 1, I could:

Convert 364 IC to 364 PL, which could be used to:

- Build 364 Regular Armies. (cost, 364 PL.)
- Create Spies (1 PL per spy.)
- Use these Spies to Infiltrate. The cost is 1/10th of the IC value of the area Infiltrated. If I attempt to Infiltrate an area worth 400 IC, then it costs 40 PL to Infiltrate that area.
- Attempt to detect Spies (cost: 1 PL per attempt, so if 5 enemy nations had spies within my country, I'd have to spend 5 PL to attempt to locate them all.)
- Attempt to Remove Spies (cost ASSUMING the Spy is attempting Infiltration of my entire power: 36.4 PL per attempt. If 5 enemy nations are attempting such Infiltration, it would cost me 182 PL to attempt to stop all five.)

And/or, I could:

Convert 364 IC to 364 PP, which could be used to:

- Improve the infrastructure of my power, so that my base IC is 1.5 times greater next turn. If I spent 364 PP for this purpose, my power would have 182 additional IC next turn (that is, at the beginning of Turn 2, my power would be worth 364.55 + 182 = 546.55 IC.)
- Advance 7 ranks in the Technological Arms Race. (50 per rank, 350 PP spent.) Or, advance 5 ranks in the Technological Arms Race if I want to do it without using the devilish blueprints and creating non-polluting technology (70 per rank, 350 PP spent.)
- Upgrade 36 Regular Armies (built with PL) to Elite Armies. (cost 360 PP.) This assumes I have the Regular Armies available.
- Or, I could build 33 Regular Armies with 33 PL, then spend 330 PP to upgrade them to 33 Elite Armies (a total of 363 PL and PP spent.) In this case, the building and upgrading are simultaneous.
- Upgrade 3 Elite Armies to Epic Armies (cost: 100 PP per Army, for a total cost of 300 PP.)

I COULD sacrifice Eclavdra (2 Epic PL) and I COULD sacrifice the Regalia of Lordly Might (1 Epic PL) and I COULD sacrifice the other 2 Epic PL I have, and thus gain 5 Epic PL towards 10th level magic. (50 needed)
In addition, I COULD spend 300 PP to upgrade 3 Elite Armies to Epic Armies, then sacrifice them also, gaining another 3 Epic PL towards 10th level magic. In which case, I'd have 8 Epic PL towards 10th level magic. (50 needed.)
I'd be minus my leader, artifacts, and all my Epic Armies used this way would be dead, but I'd have those 8 points.

-

My power is rating as having 1,350 rPL (Regular PL.) This reflects the fact I have 50 Elite Armies (worth 10 PL each, for a total of 500 PL), Epic Armies worth 200 PL, Eclavdra (worth 200 PL), and the Regalia of Lordly Might (worth 100 PL)
364.55 base + 500 + 200 + 200 + 100 = 1,364.55 (well, it's CLOSE to the 1,350 Serpenteye has listed! )

BUT ...

I only have 364.55 IC, and I can only create from that a combined PL and PP total of 364.55 out of this.

I can ONLY use that 364.55. Any and ALL PL and/or PP generated MUST come from that 364.55.
Therefore, I can NOT generate more than 364 PL and/or PP combined on Turn 1.

Is this right?

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

(tries again. Third attempt)

Posted by Serpenteye:

TOTAL IC OF EDENA OF NEITHS' POWER: 364,55 IC

PL:

Regular PL: 350
Elite PL: 50
Epic PL: 2 (not including PC)
Eclavdra: 2 epPL
The Regalia of Lordly Might: 1 epPL

TOTAL VALUE OF PL: 1350 rPL

-

From Edena, yet again:

My power is worth 364.55 IC (Industrial Capacity) prior to Turn 1.
At the BEGINNING of Turn 1, I must allocate the 364 IC as PL and/or PP.

From the numbers given above, I am ASSUMING THAT PRIOR TO THE START of Turn 1, my power has:

350 Regular Armies
50 Elite Armies
2 Epic Armies

If I create Militia (free), or build armies (PL cost), I will have ADDITIONAL Armies over and above the Armies I started with, as listed above.

-

If I allocate IC as PL, this represents:

Building Regular Armies (it costs 1 PL per Regular Army built.)
Creating Spies. (it costs 1 PL per Spy created.)
Attempting Infiltration. (It costs 1/10th the IC value of the area Infiltrated, to attempt to Infiltrate it. Attempting to Infiltrate an area worth 400 IC, costs 40 PL to Infiltrate.)
Detecting Enemy Spies (it costs 1 PL per attempt.)
Attempting to stop or reverse Infiltration (It costs 1/10th the IC value of the area Infiltrated - if my entire power was being Infiltrated, it would cost 36.4 PL to try and stop the attempt, or reverse the Infiltration by one step.)
Attacking and Defending (Indirectly. Armies Attack and Defend. PL is used to build the Armies in the first place.)

If I allocate IC as PP, this represents:

- Increasing the overall infrastructure of my power, so that my base IC will be higher next turn. (This assumes everything involved in building a civilization and culture, expanding an economy, increasingly efficiency and productivity, and so on) My base IC next turn will be increased by the PP expended times 0.5. 100 PP spent for this purpose increases my base IC by 50.

- Increasing the technological level of my power, advancing in the Technological Arms Race. (This assumes everything involved in researching technology, building industry (factories, etc.), creating technomancy, and so on.) Every 50 PP spent increases my rank by one (or 60, or 70, if I want non-fiend, non-polluting technology and technomancy.)

- Upgrading Regular Armies to Elite Armies. (This costs 10 PP per Regular Army upgraded.)

(Creating and/or finding magical items to augment my Regular Armies to Elite Armies.)
(Creating and/or finding artifacts/relics to augment my Regular Armies to Elite Armies.)
(Finding and/or creating and/or subduing and/or otherwise gaining the service of powerful monsters, to augment my Regular Armies to Elite Armies.)
(Granting permanent magical abilities to the troops, or otherwise upgrading their capabilities)

-

In addition to deciding whether to allocate IC as PL and/or PP, I must decide if I will sacrifice Epic PL to conduct research in the Magical Arms Race.
Epic PL spent in this way are lost. If I spend Eclavdras' 2 Epic PL for this purpose, Eclavdra is killed.
Upon the attaining of 50 Epic PL worth of sacrifice, I gain 10th level magic.

-

Now ...

On Turn 1, I could:

Convert 364 IC to 364 PL, which could be used to:

- Build 364 Regular Armies. (cost, 364 PL.)
- Create Spies (1 PL per spy.)
- Use these Spies to Infiltrate. The cost is 1/10th of the IC value of the area Infiltrated. If I attempt to Infiltrate an area worth 400 IC, then it costs 40 PL to Infiltrate that area.
- Attempt to detect Spies (cost: 1 PL per attempt, so if 5 enemy nations had spies within my country, I'd have to spend 5 PL to attempt to locate them all.)
- Attempt to Remove Spies / Stop Infiltration / Reverse Infilitration by one step (cost ASSUMES the Spy is attempting Infiltration of my entire power: 36.4 PL per attempt. If 5 enemy nations are attempting such Infiltration, it would cost me 182 PL to attempt to stop all five.)

And/or, I could:

Convert 364 IC to 364 PP, which could be used to:

- Improve the infrastructure of my power, so that my base IC is 1.5 times greater next turn. If I spent 364 PP for this purpose, my power would have 182 additional IC next turn (that is, at the beginning of Turn 2, my power would be worth 364.55 + 182 = 546.55 IC.)
- Advance 7 ranks in the Technological Arms Race. (50 per rank, 350 PP spent.) Or, advance 5 ranks in the Technological Arms Race if I want to do it without using the devilish blueprints and creating non-polluting technology (70 per rank, 350 PP spent.)
- Upgrade 36 Regular Armies (built with PL) to Elite Armies. (cost 360 PP.) This assumes I have the Regular Armies available.
- Or, I could build 33 Regular Armies with 33 PL, then spend 330 PP to upgrade them to 33 Elite Armies (a total of 363 PL and PP spent.) In this case, the building and upgrading are simultaneous.
- Upgrade 3 Elite Armies to Epic Armies (cost: 100 PP per Army, for a total cost of 300 PP.)

I COULD sacrifice Eclavdra (2 Epic PL) and I COULD sacrifice the Regalia of Lordly Might (1 Epic PL) and I COULD sacrifice the other 2 Epic PL I have, and thus gain 5 Epic PL towards 10th level magic. (50 needed)
In addition, I COULD spend 300 PP to upgrade 3 Elite Armies to Epic Armies, then sacrifice them also, gaining another 3 Epic PL towards 10th level magic. In which case, I'd have 8 Epic PL towards 10th level magic. (50 needed.)
I'd be minus my leader, artifacts, and all my Epic Armies used this way would be dead, but I'd have those 8 points.

-

My power is rating as having 1,350 rPL (Regular PL.) This reflects the fact I have 350 Regular Armies (350 PL), 50 Elite Armies (worth 10 PL each, for a total of 500 PL), 2 Epic Armies (worth 100 PL each, for a total of 200 PL), Eclavdra (worth 200 PL), and the Regalia of Lordly Might (worth 100 PL)
350 + 500 + 200 + 200 + 100 = 1,350.

BUT ...

I only have 364.55 IC, and I can only create from that a combined PL and PP total of 364 out of this.

I can ONLY use that 364.55. Any and ALL PL and/or PP generated MUST come from that 364.55.
Therefore, I can NOT generate more than 364 PL and/or PP combined on Turn 1.

Is this right?

If I am right, what else can I do not mentioned above?

How do I spend PL to fight? Can I, say, put 20 PL into backing an army in a specific battle?
How do I spend PP to build armies?

 

[Serpenteye]

TO BUGBEAR

Unfortunately, I only grew more confused by your article. Thank you for trying to help me, though. I appreciate it. I'm studying your post carefully.
I'll let Serpenteye directly answer my post above.

Oh, think of it like this:

IC -> PPts:
Industrialize
Technological arms-race
Build regular armies
Alternative method of upgrading armies

PL:
Fight
Upgrade armies
Epic PLs: Magival arms-race
Regular PLs: Infiltration

 

[Serpenteye]

(tries again. Second attempt)

Posted by Serpenteye:

TOTAL IC OF EDENA OF NEITHS' POWER: 364,55 IC

PL:

Regular PL: 350
Elite PL: 50
Epic PL: 2 (not including PC)
Eclavdra: 2 epPL
The Regalia of Lordly Might: 1 epPL

TOTAL VALUE OF PL: 1350 rPL

-

From Edena, again:

My power is worth 364.55 IC (Industrial Capacity) prior to Turn 1.
At the BEGINNING of Turn 1, I must allocate the 364 IC as PL and/or PP.

-

If I allocate IC as PL, this represents:

Building Regular Armies (it costs 1 PL per Regular Army built.)
Creating Spies. (it costs 1 PL per Spy created.)
Attempting Infiltration. (It costs 1/10th the IC value of the area Infiltrated, to attempt to Infiltrate it. Attempting to Infiltrate an area worth 400 PL, costs 40 PL to Infiltrate.)
Detecting Enemy Spies (it costs 1 PL per attempt.)
Attempting to stop or reverse Infiltration (It costs 1/10th the IC value of the area Infiltrated - if my entire power was being Infiltrated, it would cost 36.4 PL to try and stop the attempt, or reverse the Infiltration by one step.)
Attacking and Defending (indirectly, since Armies attack and defend. PL is used to build armies, and they do the attacking and defending.)

If I allocate IC as PP, this represents:

- Increasing the overall infrastructure of my power, so that my base IC will be higher next turn. (This assumes everything involved in building a civilization and culture.) My base IC next turn will be increased by the PP expended times 0.5. 100 PP spent for this purpose increases my base IC by 50.

- Increasing the technological level of my power, advancing in the technological arms race. (This assumes everything involved in researching technology, building industry, creating technomancy, and so on.) Every 50 PP spent increases my rank by one (or 60, or 70, if I want non-fiend, non-polluting technology and technomancy.)

- Upgrading Regular Armies to Elite Armies. (This costs 10 PP per Regular Army upgraded.)

(Creating and/or finding magical items to augment my Regular Armies to Elite Armies.)
(Creating and/or finding artifacts/relics to augment my Regular Armies to Elite Armies.)
(Finding and/or creating and/or subduing and/or otherwise gaining the service of powerful monsters, to augment my Regular Armies to Elite Armies.)

-

In addition to deciding whether to allocate IC as PL and/or PP, I must decide if I will sacrifice Epic PL to conduct research in the Magical Arms Race.
Epic PL spent in this way are lost. If I spend Eclavdras' 2 Epic PL for this purpose, Eclavdra is killed.
Upon the attaining of 50 Epic PL worth of sacrifice, I gain 10th level magic.

-

Now ...

On Turn 1, I could:

Convert 364 IC to 364 PL, which could be used to:

- Build 364 Regular Armies. (cost, 364 PL.)
- Create Spies (1 PL per spy.)
- Use these Spies to Infiltrate. The cost is 1/10th of the IC value of the area Infiltrated. If I attempt to Infiltrate an area worth 400 IC, then it costs 40 PL to Infiltrate that area.
- Attempt to detect Spies (cost: 1 PL per attempt, so if 5 enemy nations had spies within my country, I'd have to spend 5 PL to attempt to locate them all.)
- Attempt to Remove Spies (cost ASSUMING the Spy is attempting Infiltration of my entire power: 36.4 PL per attempt. If 5 enemy nations are attempting such Infiltration, it would cost me 182 PL to attempt to stop all five.)

And/or, I could:

Convert 364 IC to 364 PP, which could be used to:

- Improve the infrastructure of my power, so that my base IC is 1.5 times greater next turn. If I spent 364 PP for this purpose, my power would have 182 additional IC next turn (that is, at the beginning of Turn 2, my power would be worth 364.55 + 182 = 546.55 IC.)
- Advance 7 ranks in the Technological Arms Race. (50 per rank, 350 PP spent.) Or, advance 5 ranks in the Technological Arms Race if I want to do it without using the devilish blueprints and creating non-polluting technology (70 per rank, 350 PP spent.)
- Upgrade 36 Regular Armies (built with PL) to Elite Armies. (cost 360 PP.) This assumes I have the Regular Armies available.
- Or, I could build 33 Regular Armies with 33 PL, then spend 330 PP to upgrade them to 33 Elite Armies (a total of 363 PL and PP spent.) In this case, the building and upgrading are simultaneous.
- Upgrade 3 Elite Armies to Epic Armies (cost: 100 PP per Army, for a total cost of 300 PP.)

I COULD sacrifice Eclavdra (2 Epic PL) and I COULD sacrifice the Regalia of Lordly Might (1 Epic PL) and I COULD sacrifice the other 2 Epic PL I have, and thus gain 5 Epic PL towards 10th level magic. (50 needed)
In addition, I COULD spend 300 PP to upgrade 3 Elite Armies to Epic Armies, then sacrifice them also, gaining another 3 Epic PL towards 10th level magic. In which case, I'd have 8 Epic PL towards 10th level magic. (50 needed.)
I'd be minus my leader, artifacts, and all my Epic Armies used this way would be dead, but I'd have those 8 points.

All correct.

My power is rating as having 1,350 rPL (Regular PL.) This reflects the fact I have 50 Elite Armies (worth 10 PL each, for a total of 500 PL), Epic Armies worth 200 PL, Eclavdra (worth 200 PL), and the Regalia of Lordly Might (worth 100 PL)
364.55 base + 500 + 200 + 200 + 100 = 1,364.55 (well, it's CLOSE to the 1,350 Serpenteye has listed! )

BUT ...

I only have 364.55 IC, and I can only create from that a combined PL and PP total of 364.55 out of this.

I can ONLY use that 364.55. Any and ALL PL and/or PP generated MUST come from that 364.55.
Therefore, I can NOT generate more than 364 PL and/or PP combined on Turn 1.

Is this right?

No.

The 1350 rPL I posted after listing your different kinds if PL was simply an aide to comparing your total PL with others. You don't have 1350 regular PLs, you have the equivalent of 1350 PLs (if that's what was listed). That's all. If it's confusing I'll remove it, it has no technical relevance.

You can use all your IC. Your PL in no way limits your IC. You can use all your PLs. Your IC can determine how many new PLs you can get each turn but it doesn't limit your ability to use the PLs you already have.

 

[James Heard]

Ok, now I have quick question: Are the PLs used for counter-infiltration lost? Can you "allocate" PLs for the task and have them just do their jobs on a constant turn by turn basis?

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

Serpenteye, could you critique my third attempt, and tell me if it's right?

I understand what you just said.

I can USE the 350 Regular Armies, 50 Elite Armies, and 2 Epic Armies anyway I want. They are worth 1050 PL, and I could hurl them all at an opponent.

But I only have 364.55 IC at the start of Turn 1, so I can only ALLOCATE 364 PL and/or PP at the start of Turn 1.
The total amount of PL and/or PP I generate in a turn cannot exceed my IC value at the start of that turn.

 

[Serpenteye]

(tries again. Third attempt)

From Edena, yet again:

.....

How do I spend PL to fight? Can I, say, put 20 PL into backing an army in a specific battle?
How do I spend PP to build armies?

Please give me time to answer your question before you repeat it.

...

You can move your armies around freely (though travel-times apply in the case of Militia and Regulars) and have them fight wherever they can reach. You can assign (and I'd actually preferr if you did) PLs into specific armies.

You spend PPts (which you get from IC) in the template before the beginning of the Turn. You have the option of spending as many PPts as your faction can generate.

 

[Serpenteye]

Serpenteye, could you critique my third attempt, and tell me if it's right?

I understand what you just said.

I can USE the 350 Regular Armies, 50 Elite Armies, and 2 Epic Armies anyway I want. They are worth 1050 PL, and I could hurl them all at an opponent.

But I only have 364.55 IC at the start of Turn 1, so I can only ALLOCATE 364 PL and/or PP at the start of Turn 1.
The total amount of PL and/or PP I generate in a turn cannot exceed my IC value at the start of that turn.

Correct. You only generate 364 PPts at the start of the Turn. You can spend those PPts to create armies, or research, or industrialize, etc, but you can't spend more than what you generate.