Malachias Invictus
First Post
Kaos said:
How about Weapons of Legacy? Egregious example.
[Iron Heroes] Magic oddities.
- Thread starter Kaos
- Start date
How about Weapons of Legacy? Egregious example.
Malachias Invictus
First Post
Regarding the Wiki for the Iron Heroes magic system
I have not heard anything formal. The Iron League proposal was the last I had heard.
Kaos said:
I have not heard anything formal. The Iron League proposal was the last I had heard.
ThirdWizard
First Post
Iron League won't be up and running for two days right? I'm sure they have their hands full at the moment; I doubt they'll be able to consider it for at least another week as they get everything going.
Malachias Invictus
First Post
Driddle said:
First of all, it seems like *you* are the one doing the whining, here. The others I see in this thread are attempting to have a productive discussion regarding how to fix something that is broken. They are not so much trying to make the Iron Heroes magic system into something it is not as they are trying to make it into what it was intended to be.
Driddle said:
For *you*. Feel free to not include it in your games. Personally, I want it in mine. I suspect that is true of a majority of the participants in this thread.
Driddle said:
...and some fantastically obtuse observations of a certain poster who seems to both project and miss the point at the same time...
Driddle said:
Better guess: because they enjoy it that way.
Funnily enough, that is the only reason that matters.
Malachias Invictus
First Post
Driddle said:
Obviously, you have not read the material. Please refrain from commenting on specifics until you have.
Particle_Man
Explorer
Got another idea on a simple way to make evocation more powerful (potentially) while keeping the risk factor high.
"Double or nothing".
Before the channeling roll is made, (And thus way before damage is rolled), but after the mana has been gathered, the arcanist has an option to roll "double or nothing" on an unmodified d20. 11 or higher means x2 damage. 10 or lower means a special effect that does absolutely no damage. And so long as the arcanist does not roll 10 or lower (getting nothing) the arcanist can keep making "double or nothing" rolls. Unlike most "double-doubles" in D20 games, here a twice doubled spell would do 4x damage, a thrice doubled spell would do 8x damage, etc. The character can stop the doubling rolls at any time, but cannot make any further doubling rolls after getting the "nothing" result. A consolation prize is that the "nothing" result won't fry you on a bad channelling roll.
The "doubling" would not affect the channeling DC in any way. And win or lose, you still spent the mana points.
The risk of getting a great series of doublings, but screwing up the channeling and frying yourself, remains.
A more modest "double or nothing" rule would run as above, but apply the standard d20 doubling rule (so a twice doubled roll does x3 damage, a thrice doubled roll does x4 damage, etc.). But I think that is mathematically less viable. The original "double or nothing" does the same damage on average, I think. Hmmm...maybe modify that d20 roll a bit? Give a greater chance for a "double" and less for a "nothing"? But I have no idea where to set it. 6 or higher? 8 or higher? Maybe leave it at 11 or higher, but let you add your Evocation Mastery to the d20 roll (using the weaker standard of "double doublings"), with a natural 1 always being "nothing"? But then lvl 20 evokers get insanly good at high levels.
"Double or nothing".
Before the channeling roll is made, (And thus way before damage is rolled), but after the mana has been gathered, the arcanist has an option to roll "double or nothing" on an unmodified d20. 11 or higher means x2 damage. 10 or lower means a special effect that does absolutely no damage. And so long as the arcanist does not roll 10 or lower (getting nothing) the arcanist can keep making "double or nothing" rolls. Unlike most "double-doubles" in D20 games, here a twice doubled spell would do 4x damage, a thrice doubled spell would do 8x damage, etc. The character can stop the doubling rolls at any time, but cannot make any further doubling rolls after getting the "nothing" result. A consolation prize is that the "nothing" result won't fry you on a bad channelling roll.
The "doubling" would not affect the channeling DC in any way. And win or lose, you still spent the mana points.
The risk of getting a great series of doublings, but screwing up the channeling and frying yourself, remains.
A more modest "double or nothing" rule would run as above, but apply the standard d20 doubling rule (so a twice doubled roll does x3 damage, a thrice doubled roll does x4 damage, etc.). But I think that is mathematically less viable. The original "double or nothing" does the same damage on average, I think. Hmmm...maybe modify that d20 roll a bit? Give a greater chance for a "double" and less for a "nothing"? But I have no idea where to set it. 6 or higher? 8 or higher? Maybe leave it at 11 or higher, but let you add your Evocation Mastery to the d20 roll (using the weaker standard of "double doublings"), with a natural 1 always being "nothing"? But then lvl 20 evokers get insanly good at high levels.
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Hmm. I just perused my copy of Iron Heroes again. Darned if I can find something "broken" about the magic system that needs to be "fixed" by a bunch of disgruntled wannabe game mechanics.
Must be missing something. I'll look again. Maybe a design element I'm missing, hidden in secret code? ...
Pg. 7: "In the implied setting of Iron Heroes, magic is dangerous, unpredictable, and almost impossible to control. Arcane power is the province of..."
Nope. Still missing it.
((Heck, this is more fun than the game itself! Thanks, guys.))
Must be missing something. I'll look again. Maybe a design element I'm missing, hidden in secret code? ...
Pg. 7: "In the implied setting of Iron Heroes, magic is dangerous, unpredictable, and almost impossible to control. Arcane power is the province of..."
Nope. Still missing it.
((Heck, this is more fun than the game itself! Thanks, guys.))
Savage Wombat
Hero
You know, the thing that weakens the evocation school more than anything is the "double cost for damage" rule. Take that out and evocation is still weak, but not as bad.
That'd certainly be the easiest fix.
That'd certainly be the easiest fix.
Ah! A flash of insight!
What threw me was the lack of magic-related feats and traits, the few references to arcanists overall, the teensy ratio of mage-to-combatant classes, and the repetitive stress on how magic is generally the province of monsters and enemies. I figured IH was purposely designed to downplay the significance, and ergo, the power of the traditional spellcaster concept when compared with the more visceral warrior types.
I was looking at it alllllll wrong! The product is obviously a challenge or test to the uber-bright consumer to fix the magic system. A puzzle book of sorts. Heck, they even published it with blank space inside the cover for wizarding notes!
I shouldn't have taken the book at face value. Sorry. I've seen the error of my ways and will speak on this no more. Really. Not even a peep. I promise. My wife says I'm a bad person for treating you folks so sarcastically in this thread.
(Sadly though, I have to take it back to the game shop and try to explain to the dealer that it's not what I was expecting to buy. Bummer.)
What threw me was the lack of magic-related feats and traits, the few references to arcanists overall, the teensy ratio of mage-to-combatant classes, and the repetitive stress on how magic is generally the province of monsters and enemies. I figured IH was purposely designed to downplay the significance, and ergo, the power of the traditional spellcaster concept when compared with the more visceral warrior types.
I was looking at it alllllll wrong! The product is obviously a challenge or test to the uber-bright consumer to fix the magic system. A puzzle book of sorts. Heck, they even published it with blank space inside the cover for wizarding notes!
I shouldn't have taken the book at face value. Sorry. I've seen the error of my ways and will speak on this no more. Really. Not even a peep. I promise. My wife says I'm a bad person for treating you folks so sarcastically in this thread.
(Sadly though, I have to take it back to the game shop and try to explain to the dealer that it's not what I was expecting to buy. Bummer.)
Driddle let's simplify this, if you don't like this discussion and have no use for it then "change the channel" there are thousands of other posts to go read. Griefing because you don't like the discussion is not kosher here on EN.
What part of the below post do you not under stand?
What part of the below post do you not under stand?
Agamon said:
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