Iron Lore: Malhavoc's Surprise?

[A'koss]

Thanks for the big update Mike!

Especially the nice little character breakdown you did. IL is slowly coming into focus - and it's looking gooood. Interesting that there are a number of rather specialized sounding core classes - archer, hunter, berserker, thief, harrier... What is a harrier anyway...? Some kinda... quasi-rogue maybe?

Anyway, it's got me wondering how (or even if) you're dealing with Prestige Classes in IL.

If you've ever come up with a real cool adventure idea, then realized that the adventure would never fly because of a spell like teleport, or detect thoughts, or divination, you're going to love Iron Lore. The story side of the game is much, much easier to deal with.

Ahh, another plus in IL's column... Of course, though I would expect this from a game like IL, it's always reassuring to hear.

Cheers!

 

[Schmoe]

I have to say that this is the most excited I've been about an upcoming product in a long, long time. I can't wait to get my hands on it. I normally don't make posts just to say "cool", or whatever, but in this case, I can't resist.

 

[DungeonmasterCal]

Even before 3e came out, some friends of mine got out of D&D because of the reliance on magic and magic items. From what Mr. Mearls has leaked to us this is the exact product that might lure them back to the table. I'm extremely excited and intrigued by this product, and will undoubtedly add this to my shelf.

 

[JoeCrow]

That's very interesting... I've been hanging on to a PDF for over a month now that addresses that very issue (and in almost identical terms to how you described it). I should probably get around to publishing it...

Yes. Yes, you should.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

snip crunch, fluff, story, mechanics, and spell bleeders

A very interesting post, mr. mearls.

Some of that terminology sounds more like Monte's voice to me; which I point out only to acknowledge that you guys obviously have a good collaboration going on.

I am still waiting to hear the "dragon in an open field" solution, especially since you confirmed that nothing in IL will allow you to (for example) bypass DR.

(When folks think, "d20 Monster CR compatibility" that's always the first thing to come up, followed by undead.)

I'd like to hear a demonstrable example of the IL power curve/CR solution that acknowledges that dragon's DR (a system issue) and the fact that he flies (a story issue).


Wulf

 

[Tolen Mar]

Im gonna have to wait on this one...I have a very limited budget and blew it on AE, the dragons return, and a few novels Ive been wanting to read. Plus Transcendance is due to come out a little down the road...

All I care about now (and yes Mr. Mearls, you have sold me on it) is how well it will convert to AE. Im already in an AE game, and anything new I get will have to work with it, or Ill have to pass. (due to a certain limit on time....pesky real life.) I just cant buy every book I see.

 

[Ozmar]

Awesome!!

I've been playing D&D for years, and while I recognize the challenges inherent in high-level magical abilities, I've seldom had them impact the game to the point where I wished I could get rid of them. I am pretty happy with players who can fly, teleport, read minds, etc... and have no trouble challenging them.

Still, I am getting more and more excited about Iron Lore! Although this is not what I was looking for, I am starting to look for it, because it sounds very awesome!

Can't wait until August!

Ozmar the Fanboy

 

[mearls]

I'd like to hear a demonstrable example of the IL power curve/CR solution that acknowledges that dragon's DR (a system issue) and the fact that he flies (a story issue).

An example such as this is beyond the scope of what I can talk about now (I think). But it is something that will be covered in the upcoming previews.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

An example such as this is beyond the scope of what I can talk about now (I think). But it is something that will be covered in the upcoming previews.

Invariably people want to know about DR, and dragons, and undead, and the reliance on magical healing, and other typical challenges that seem as if they can only be defeated by magic. (Or at least, are better handled through magic.)

And in some of your prior posts I notice code words like "different style of game."

Now, obviously, having invested myself in low-magic design, I believe there are some things that just don't "convert" very well in a low magic game.

That is, if you want to build a character-focused, skill-focused, story-focused game, you just don't put low-magic characters into a dungeon crawl full of wights, shadows, and bodaks. It isn't a failure of the ruleset that such a scenario is "broken" with regard to the low-magic ruleset. The system will fail, yes-- because the story is flawed.

I gather such things under the umbrella of "different style of game" as you seem to-- but on the other hand you claimed to have "solved" the balance issues some monsters and some styles of play (dungeon delving in particular) bring with them, and you seem to have claimed that you do it in a way that other low magic games presumably have failed to do.

What interests me most about Iron Lore-- and what I concede and defer to your greater game design mojo-- is that you seem to have moved a few more things out from under the umbrella of "story"-- that is, the place where you put things that just aren't going to have a system solution-- and put them into the system.

I am wondering just how much smaller your umbrella got, or if it's still pretty superficial compared to the other low-magic systems that are out there. Iron Lore's "... And a griffon shows up to fly you there..." is the kissing cousin of Grim Tales', "You can't teleport because the GM doesn't let you learn teleport in his campaign." (A hand-wave is a hand-wave, after all.)

To put it yet another way: To what extent did you create a system-solution for things that (I believe) are more easily fit under that story-solution umbrella?

Wulf

 

[Greatwyrm]

Invariably people want to know about DR...

Absolutely no disrespect intended, but invariably people don't like to wait, either. Unfortunately, it's something we all have to get used to in the world of rpg news teasers.

That is, if you want to build a character-focused, skill-focused, story-focused game, you just don't put low-magic characters into a dungeon crawl full of wights, shadows, and bodaks. It isn't a failure of the ruleset that such a scenario is "broken" with regard to the low-magic ruleset. The system will fail, yes-- because the story is flawed.

It's still awfully early to discuss the brokenosity of something that hasn't even had previews posted, isn't it?

I gather such things under the umbrella of "different style of game" as you seem to-- but on the other hand you claimed to have "solved" the balance issues some monsters and some styles of play (dungeon delving in particular) bring with them, and you seem to have claimed that you do it in a way that other low magic games presumably have failed to do.

I wouldn't say that it necessarily implies failure. There's more than one way to skin a cat (no worries P'cat).