Irresistable Spell

[Cheiromancer]

It's a feat found in the Kingdoms of Kalamar Player's Guide. I'm regarding it with some suspicion. It raises a spell's level by 4, and removes the chance for a saving throw. Pre-requisites are Maximize Spell and Envelope the Wall (a stackable metamagic feat: +1 spell level to boost caster level by +2 for purposes of overcoming magic resistance.)

I know that if you double empower a fireball, it does double damage- or standard damage if you save for 1/2. Adding the same number of levels just to disallow the save seems fair. You never do double damage, but you get those pesky monks and rogues.

But I'm not sure about other spells. An irresistable phantasmal killer at 8th level? Sure beats the heck out of maze and otto's irresistable dance. Or am I being too hard-nosed here?

No save for +4 spell levels. Broken or not?

 

[Crothian]

It's a tough one. Also think about it with cold or fire based creatures. No safe means automatic double damage for the opposite element spells.

 

[Hammerhead]

Think Irresistable charm, or "save or die effects." Irresistable Phantasmal killer will kill one person. Hold Monster could be worth it, but could be dispelled. I think the feat is rather broken. Using it for damage dealing spells seems wasteful though.

 

[comrade raoul]

As with the previous posters, it seems to me that Irresistable Spell is broken at any increase in spell level. But it also strikes me as rather redundant: we already have a reasonably good metamagic feat (Heighten Spell) that casters can take if they want to make their spells tougher to resist.

 

[Geoff Watson]

Very Broken.

Geoff.

 

[SeRiAlExPeRiMeNtS]

Man I want this book! if my dm alow this feat I will be very hapy, my fighter/wizard 17/2 could use a save less polymorph others! turn that anoyng dragon to a salmon....


This feat is very, very broken I love it!

 

[Xarlen]

For epic play, this is a must.

Imagine, for a 10th level slot, you could be throwing an Irresistable Disintegrate. That will take care of those critters that aren't effected by Phantasmal Killer.

"And the Lich King begins casting a full round spell. What do you do?"
"I turn him to dust. Even moreso."

And, a twice empowered spell, they resist for half the ORIGIONAL damage.

If they make the fireball save for a 10th level mage's fireball, they take 5d6. NOW add empower damage.

Or, for that same slot, you could get a Delayed Blast Iceball. 40d6 damage. BAM. Eat that.

 

[FireLance]

The 3rd-level cleric spell Searing Light does not give a save. Is it broken? No saves for a spell in and of itself would not cause it to be broken. At high-level play, there are plenty of other things that can be done to offset this advantage.

Spell resistance is one. Want to polymorph that dragon into a salmon? Beat his SR of 33 first.

Flat-out immunity is another. The 9th-level spell Elemental Immunity (Fire) (from Tome & Blood) is a must for any powerful Cold creature. Finger of Death is easily defeated by Death Ward, Phantasmal Killer, Charm and all other mind-affecting spells are blocked by Mind Blank, and so on. Offhand, I can't think of anything that trumps Disintegrate, but magical research is going on as we speak, and someone is bound to come up with something soon.

So, in my view, Irresistable Spell is not broken. Whether it takes the fun out of the game by reducing it to a question of "what can get through the magical defences?" is another matter.

 

[Hammerhead]

Yes, there are lots of fun defenes. And SR.

However, look at the hoops that Power Word spells have. Power Word: Kill: level 9, Death effect (blocked by death ward), has HP limitations. Irresistable Phantasmal Killer: level 8, mind affecting (blocked by mind blank), no other limitations, requires a feat. Even considering the feat cost, the irresistable spell seems far superior.

And Irresistable spells can enter play faster than the countermeasures in some cases. Charm, Hold and Suggestion can be used before Mind Black enters the equation.

And some no saves are better than others. Magic Missile and Searing Light don't have saves. But they also only do damage, and rather moderate amounts at that. You have to get to the high level Power Words and forcecages to see spells without saves that can instantly knock out an enemy. Irresistable spells don't have the HP limitations that Power words do, and can be applied to any effect. Even though Blindness and Hold Person are equivalent - at least for clerics - you don't see Power Word: Hold whereas you do see Blind. Some things are just supposed to have saves.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

I agree with the majority of the comments here.

Irresistable Phantasmal Killer, Slay Living, Charm Person, Dominate Person, Suggestion, Blindness (as a 6th level spell no less), etc are too good for their level. In fact, they're probably too good for a non-epic game.

Irresistable Zone of Truth and Irresistable Detect Thoughts (both sixth level and therefore available far before Mind Blank which protects against them) would also be potential game-breakers if the game were more politically focussed.

Like many of the feats in the Kalamar book, Irresistable spell is overpowered and probably unsuitable for most campaigns.