Is 10' step unbalancing?

[VirtualWizard]

As written, I think that the 10' step is unbalancing because this ability allows a character a limited 'take 25' tumble check as part of a full round attack. The requirements to gain the ability seem rather low meaning that the ability to 'take 25' on a skill roll is extremely powerful for a low level character. With this ability, you will likely see a lot more sneak attacks and cleaves.
If I were to change this ability and the PrC, I would add Tumble 6 for entrance requirements. I would make the following changes to the abilities gained.

1st level add Tumble Mastery (Elemental ninja can take 10 on tumble checks)
1st level remove 10' step
3rd level add 10' step (remove ability to move through occupied squares)
7th level add Step Mastery (allow step through occupied squares w/o AoO)
7th level remove 15' step
10th level add 15' step

What do you think?

 

[Agamemnon]

That has got to be one of the stupidest analogies I have ever seen. If that's the best you can do, just shut up. Good grief... :\

Back where I come from, we have this thing called "polite replies". You should try it sometime.

It's no good to simply say "this is a stupid statement", you have to be able to refute the opposing argument and use evidence to back your own. Otherwise, there is the impression that you started namecalling as a last resort.

 

[Plane Sailing]

To my mind the big problem with allowing a 10ft step is that it means that something with reach can always reposition itself so that an attacker with less reach has to move through its threatened area again in order to attack AND cannot take a full attack against you

The upshot of this is that

a) attacking creatures with reach and 10ft step becomes much more difficult

b) all combat PC's are likely to take some cross-class ranks in Tumble to get through reach without incurring an AoO and/or spring attack so they can get in, strike and get out without incurring AoO.

c) nobody will be going toe to toe swapping full attacks with a creature with 10ft step unless it wants to, since it can almost always manouvre in such a way that they have to take more than a 5ft step thus denying themselves a full attack.

Cheers

 

[drunkmoogle]

Wow, just noticed now he didn't put tumble as a prereq. Thanks.

This is all being taken under advisement. The near final draft of the class should be up, as a new topic, within the week.

 

[Terath Ninir]

Otherwise, there is the impression that you started namecalling as a last resort.

No, when someone says something *that* stupid, I use namecalling as a *first* resort. It is inherently obvious to the most casual observor that a 10 ft. step is IN NO WAY comparable to allowing all casters to cast unlimited spells as a free action. If you can't see that, you're dumb, too. I hope that that is not true, however, and you're just being a politeness Nazi.

 

[Scion]

I think it was a valid comparison in that you were taking one thing to be too light, so he went the other way and made it too heavy handed. Mainly in an effort to show you the error of your ways.

Obviously he was not successful, although I think that is more your problem than his.

10' step is pretty rough for people with reach to have though, or it could potentially be. I know that there is an item in arms and equipment that allows a monk to gain this benefit, but useing 30+k out of your gear just to gain this ability.. might be ok. Limited in scope, only for monks, decently costly.

Still, it is a very strong ability. Saying that it is 'merely' doubleing is just not doing it justice. It is an enormous change, in the same way that negating the 5' step completely is also an enormous change.

I've never seen a game run with the 10', but I have seen one that got rid of the steps.. wow it was horrible sometimes.. maybe it made more sense for realism, but it was incredibly difficult for a lot of builds/tactics.

 

[Aaron2]

It is inherently obvious to the most casual observor that a 10 ft. step is IN NO WAY comparable to allowing all casters to cast unlimited spells as a free action. If you can't see that, you're dumb, too.

I didn't mean unlimited spells, just as many of your normal spells as you want. Still, the point wasn't that these things were comparable in power, it was that a 10' step is not a "small" change anymore than allowing casters to cast multiple spells per round is not a "small" change, despite the fact that they are both relatively simple rule changes.

I should have made the feat grant the ability to cast two spells per round as a Standard Action. That' s only twice the normal amount just as a 10' step is only twice the normal distance. That would have been more comparable.


Aaron

 

[Plane Sailing]

Still, it is a very strong ability.

I think it is much, much too strong, for the reasons I give above.

 

[Agamemnon]

I hope that that is not true, however, and you're just being a politeness Nazi.

You do realize that calling anyone a Nazi is considered VERY offensive in many circles? Especially in Europe. I don't mind, but people in Sweden have lost their jobs over something like that.

*shrug* I'm used to respect people's right to have silly opinions, I suppose. That's what living in a tiny country in the middle of nowhere does to ya.

 

[Plane Sailing]

That's what living in a tiny country in the middle of nowhere does to ya.

So where *do* you live, cyberzombie? Andorra?