D&D 4E Is 4E retro?

small creatures using normal sized weapons, but with limited selection.

great! :)

explanation: it is much easier to create appropriate treasure for a mixed party...
 

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Brother MacLaren said:
I see 4E continuing the trends that I didn't like in 3E, and removing much of what I did like (e.g. Vancian magic). It just does not look like an appealing game to me.

I think the Vancian magic system is one of the heart and souls of D&D, as created by EGG and Dave Arenson, removing it doesn't make 4e retro at ALL. Maybe if elves were a class then I'd say yeah.

Mike
 

qstor said:
I think the Vancian magic system is one of the heart and souls of D&D, as created by EGG and Dave Arenson, removing it doesn't make 4e retro at ALL. Maybe if elves were a class then I'd say yeah.

Mike

Saying you can only have retro D&D with Vancian Magic is like saying you can only have a retro Dodge Charger with a 230 hp 318 cu in V8.
 

BlindOgre said:
D&D Rules Cyclopedia (1991), Ch. 10, page 127:
AD&D First Edition DMG pg 84. Though speaking about character actions, such is generally the result of roleplaying by the player choosing the course of action for and behavior of the character:

"...The gaining of sufficient experience points is necessary to
indicate that a character is eligible to gain a level of experience, but the
actual award is a matter for you, the DM, to decide.
Consider the natural functions of each class of character. Consider also the
professed alignment of each character. Briefly assess the performance of
each character after an adventure. Did he or she perform basically in the
character of his or her class? Were his or her actions in keeping with his or
her professed alignment? Mentally classify the overall performance as:
E - Excellent, few deviations from norm = 1
S- Superior, deviations minimal but noted =2
F - Fair performance, more norm than deviations =3
P- Poor showing with aberrant behavior =4

Clerics who refuse to help and heal
or do not remain faithful to their deity,
fighters who hang bock from combat or attempt to steal, or fail to boldly
lead, magic-users who seek to engage in melee or ignore magic items
they could employ in crucial situations, thieves who boldly engage in
frontal attacks or refrain from acquisition of an extra bit of treasure when
the opportunity presents itself, "cautious" characters who do not pull their
own weight - these are all clear examples of a POOR rating..."

The original post was related to dealing XP for roleplaying. What I find interesting in context of this thread is the highlighted parts is that there is some indication that the "roleplaying" also refers to what 4E associates to the combat role.
Clerics as Leaders are supposed to heal. Fighters as Defenders should not hang back. Magic-Users as Controllers shouldn't go into melee. It's basically "tactical" advice on how to play a character of a class efficient.

In a way, isn't 4E trying to give exact the same advice by highlighting the role of each class and telling the players what's the best direction for the character to take?

Instead of hiding it in discussion rewards, it is off course put out in front of each class, which might be the better approach, but the idea is still the same.
 

I ran Keep on the Shadowfell yesterday. I can honestly say that as a DM, 4e feels a lot like classic D&D.

Even though the players had exploits and powers and were more survivable, they still had a tough time fighting Kobolds at 1st level. Those little red draconic buggers are vicious.

Creatures that fight differently because of racial distinctions also reinforces this. Kobolds fight differently than goblins and the players noticed this and had to adjust.

Playing without having to resort to any "outside" book was heavenly. All I needed was right there in the encounter statblock.

There was only one situation out of combat where I had to refer to a statblock, and there was no information, but I had enough information in the statblock to wing it.

I have not felt this liberated about running a game in a very long while.
 

Mustrum_Ridcully said:
Instead of hiding it in discussion rewards, which were in a book which players were expressly discouraged from reading, it is off course put out in front of each class, which might be the better approach, but the idea is still the same.
I'm not a big fan of the FIFY - but I have interpolated something in bold to try and reinforce what I thought was a good point.
 

pemerton said:
I'm not a big fan of the FIFY - but I have interpolated something in bold to try and reinforce what I thought was a good point.
Since you didn't change my meaning, and instead just underscored the point I was making, this type of "FIFY" is okay, I think.
 



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