D&D 5E Is 5e the Least-Challenging Edition of D&D?

[fearsomepirate]

Wizards are extremely dependent on prep and distance. A CR 8 wizard should be what, 11th or 12th level? If he's sitting in a 25' by 25' room and is inactive until the party opens the door, he's toast, because anything he tries to do will get Counterspelled, and he'll go down in a round from melee attacks. If he uses spells like Alarm and Arcane Eye to keep abreast of things, so that he's got his Globe of Invulnerability up when the party opens the door, or sticks a Cloudkill inside a Glyph of Warding, things could get very nasty, very quickly.

 

[Retreater]

Wizards are extremely dependent on prep and distance. A CR 8 wizard should be what, 11th or 12th level? If he's sitting in a 25' by 25' room and is inactive until the party opens the door, he's toast, because anything he tries to do will get Counterspelled, and he'll go down in a round from melee attacks. If he uses spells like Alarm and Arcane Eye to keep abreast of things, so that he's got his Globe of Invulnerability up when the party opens the door, or sticks a Cloudkill inside a Glyph of Warding, things could get very nasty, very quickly.

Yeah. Running a published adventure, he had no such prep done. Was actually supposed to be a "mad man" who would randomly decide if he was a friend or foe to the party. Hence, when I rolled randomly to attack, that pretty much ended it in a round.

 

[generic]

Saying that an individual edition is more or less difficult than another is ridiculous on its face. The majority of the difficulty in a game is determined by your DM, assuming that the DM has allowed themselves the leeway to design encounters as they see fit.

In the context of pre-published campaigns run under different systems, challenge will vary, but, especially because a core part of D&D comes from the designs created by the Dm and the strategies employed by the players, one could never ascribe difficulty to an edition.

 

[Monayuris]

If all you guys want is to claim that B/X or 2e is the most challenging edition of DnD. Take it.

I have simply been defending that 5e is challenging.

Sure.

What I do want to add is that many of the assertions you have made in response to my posts pull from the normal misconceptions held by those who actively degrinate old school gaming.

I don't think that was at all your intent, but if I have responded aggressively to debunk those assertions it is because I have heard them time and time again and am kind of sick of it.

As I have said, challenge is relative. I think different editions provide different levels of challenge.

I was explaining the difficulty and challenge and general interactions involved in old school style D&D. I was responding to your claims that my style of gaming was invalid challenge and arbitrary. I have provided concrete examples to counter your assertions. That is all. I wasn't attacking your own position, I was defending mine.

 

[TheSword]

There are a few ways of making 5e more difficult.

• wild or savage creatures like ghouls, rats, demons etc attacking creatures when they are down.
• area affect damage spells when someone is down.
• targeting the guy who casts healing word
• consequences to time delay (the watch are on their way)
• NPC collateral damage
• three way fights, where timing matters
• someone trying to get away
• effects with countdowns like dust of sneezing and choking. Much deadlier than I thought it was.

What’s more there are a number of effects that deal stat damage... the wraiths drain and the night hag’s nightmare being two I can think of.

In any edition, challenge is set by the DM to suit the party’s tastes.

 

[fearsomepirate]

What I do want to add is that many of the assertions you have made in response to my posts pull from the normal misconceptions held by those who actively degrinate old school gaming.

OSR changed the way I run 5e, and it had little to do with house rules. Biggest changes:

1. Wandering monsters. I always use them now.
2. Monsters are trying to survive, not provide "balanced encounters." They will run for help, flee, parlay, switch sides, fight to kill, gang up on the wizard, etc.
3. Players should primarily be using the gray matter between their ears, not skill bonuses, to overcome obstacles.
4. Think about the dungeon in a naturalistic way. What are the inhabitants doing? How would they react to a gang of five goobers periodically raiding them and killing their friends?
5. Don't worry about "balance," expect your players to be smart enough to learn when to fight and when to flee.

 

[Mistwell]

5. Don't worry about "balance," expect your players to be smart enough to learn when to fight and when to flee.

And then you get to the age old question of "How do you flee, when the monsters run as fast or faster then you do"?

 

[Nebulous]

We had the situation come up tonight where a PC is down and someone uses an Action DC 10 to stabilize them. I really hate this rule. It's already hard enough to kill characters in 5e and the rules support naughty word where in 6 seconds you do something miraculous to end death saves. I think a healer's kit should be required to do that AND proficiency in Medicine. If you want to use magic to stop death saves, sure, but in the middle of a desperate combat all the player wants to do is roll higher than a 10.

 

[Nebulous]

OSR changed the way I run 5e, and it had little to do with house rules. Biggest changes:

1. Wandering monsters. I always use them now.
2. Monsters are trying to survive, not provide "balanced encounters." They will run for help, flee, parlay, switch sides, fight to kill, gang up on the wizard, etc.
3. Players should primarily be using the gray matter between their ears, not skill bonuses, to overcome obstacles.
4. Think about the dungeon in a naturalistic way. What are the inhabitants doing? How would they react to a gang of five goobers periodically raiding them and killing their friends?
5. Don't worry about "balance," expect your players to be smart enough to learn when to fight and when to flee.

That all happened tonight in my game. They actually tried to short rest in a dicey spot after killing a bunch of orcs and knowing at least one escaped. They got POUNDED soon after and no short rest.

 

[DaLich]

As a DM of 35ish years and being fortunate enough to have mostly the same group of players for 25ish years, we've had many talks on this subject. We've all played together since 2E and not one player has ever mentioned one edition being more challenging than the other. I'm known as the TPK by Giants guy, I have been since 1st edition and I still am today (in my 5th consecutive 5E campaign).

The challenge of D&D has nothing to do with the system.