D&D 5E Is a +3 weapon needed...when it boosts damage by 53%?

[Stalker0]

I was doing some math for another thread, and happened to notice this.

If you take a 20th level fighter with a longsword, give him 20 strength and assume the 18 crit range ability.

His damage is 1d8+5 (9.5) on a hit, and 2d8+5 (14) on a crit.

If you have a go against an AC 16 opponent, which seems reasonable based on current numbers...he does a DPAttack of 7.8.


Now lets give him a +3 longsword, so an extra +3 to hit, damage is 12.5 and 17 respectively. His DPAttack goes up to 11.925.


Overall....that is a 53% increase in damage!

To put it in context, if this fighter gets his 4 attacks...the magic weapon (in damage terms) is giving him the damage of 6 attacks instead (technically its like 6.1 attacks).



5th edition has made the claim that magic items are not really necessary for the game. So what do you think, would an item that gave the fighter 53% more damage feel "required" in your game?

 

[evileeyore]

Is a +3 weapon needed...when it boosts damage by 53%?

No it is not needed.

 

[Grydan]

In my game? No.

Because if I ever choose to DM in the system (I currently play both 4E and 5E, and have DMed 4E), nobody would be getting +1 items, never mind +3.

+n magic items are a sacred cow that I'm quite content to put out to pasture.

 

[Agamon]

Heh, I just posted on this in a another thread. Magic items will rarely if ever get above +1, pretty much for the reason the OP pointed out.

 

[Charles Wright]

That would make them special, not "needed".

 

[Obryn]

5th edition has made the claim that magic items are not really necessary for the game. So what do you think, would an item that gave the fighter 53% more damage feel "required" in your game?

I am not going to talk about "necessary," but this is pretty much why you need to pay attention to magic items in the design process.

 

[Thaumaturge]

I don't think I can really talk about how necessary a +3 weapon would feel until we get the MM and I've played or DMd some high level play.

My expectation going in is that magic items that powerful aren't needed.

But that's a guess as much as anything right now.

Thaumaturge.

 

[drjones]

Needed? I doubt it. Major boost though it may be we have no idea how big a difference that will practically make at that level or how it will compare to other characters or the Fighters place on a team. And if we are talking max level then they have been through hundreds of encounters. Even in a low magic world and system the odds that they will have some interesting toys by that point are pretty high even if they are not generic +3 swords.

I run a low magic Dark Sun 4e game and my players regularly level past their magical weapons being effective because of the weird way inherent bonuses and the baked in magic item math work. They rarely notice and still keep on fighting with them because why not? If it worked with the character builder I would only hand out +1 (interesting) weapons and they would still be happy because the items are colorful and rare even if they are not the best they could possibly be.

 

[Mercurius]

It really comes down to DM restraint, in my opinion. A +3 weapon (in 5E, in other editions +5) should be a unique, truly special item - and should almost definitely be accompanied with other powers, a history, name, perhaps even a curse of some kind, etc. All of that is part of the fun of the game and I wouldn't want to take that away from players or from the DM's creative pleasure just because it might threaten the newish sacred cow of Game Balance (aka, the Even-Steven Ad Absurdium Principle).

Receiving a +3 weapon can be a truly special event in the life of a PC. But it should never be, "You find a +3 longsword, which will now greatly increase your damage output. Enjoy." It should be, "At last your quest is accomplised as there, in the decrepit clutches of the remains of long-dead King Agavarroth Dragonsbane, is the mighty blade Dallatharax, forged from a fallen star in the Elder Age when the world was young and death was but a dream."*

Oh yeah, the tricky part is that while Dallatharax is +3 and does double crit damage against dragons (or some such), and gives the wielder extra protection against all breath weapons, it also loves the blood of all dragonkind, including dragonborn, and will entice the wielder through battles of will to attack any dragonborn within range.

But I self-indulge.

*And yes, I do realize I stole part of that from the Greatest Fantasy Movie Of All Time, Excalibur.

 

[GSHamster]

My thought is that you are comparing +3 to +0. That seems unreasonable. A +1 weapon will also increase damage by a certain amount. So will a +2 weapon.

So that 53% is really broken into 3 steps, and you should compare the last step to the previous step, rather than the base.

Personally, I expect a 20th level Fighter to have a magic weapon. Excalibur, Joyeuse, Durendal, Curtana, etc. That's at least a +2 or +3 weapon.