Is a Horse Still a 10 by 10 creature?/Should there be facing?

[Klaus]

And unbelievably COOL!

Peter Jackson agrees!

 

[JoeGKushner]

OK... but the spearmen who accept the charge of the cavalry will be packed tightly as well. 2 spearmen per 5x5 square... So this time realism is the same as gamism, just twice as wide of a space. As far as turning, facing, etc. *yawn*

Joe, I luckily played in one of your campaigns. What I loved about it was that it was fast and loose with the rules (and you're awesome at describing things and portraying NPCs).

You must be itching for something like WFRP?

What's up B! Haven't talked to ya in a while! Saw you posting in another board but forgot what board it was so didn't even know if you replied.

I'm playing in a Mutants & Masterminds game, and playing in Savage Tide.

Waiting for some excess funds to see how Dark Heresy does. I suspect it'll be a huge seller (not D&D 4e size but easily the largest non-WoTC release.)

 

[JoeGKushner]

Been in a lot of real world life and death hand to hand combat have you?

Except when all my players complain that they didn't want their character to stare in one direction for a full 6 seconds in the middle of combat without ever turning their head or turning around(and not being able to see others in the combat react to the person walking around behind you, not being able to hear footsteps and armor noises coming up behind you, etc).

No one who has ever been in a battle before should ever be able to be snuck up on in the middle of fighting without dying very early in their career. Just using your peripheral vision properly allows you to see about 180 degrees without even a slight turn of the head or shift of the feet. The kind of combat we are trying to simulate is the kind you see in adventure movies where swarms of ninjas attack the hero and he attacks one to the front, one behind him, one to the left, then one to the right all within a couple of seconds and easily within one combat round. None of them were able to sneak up behind him.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Errm, why not? Actually, I'd say a wormlike creature wouldn't have any problem at all turning in every direction in no time. It's not necessary for the whole body length to make the turn, the top bit with the gaping maw attached should be quite sufficient...

The barbarian and monk were able to lure the worm down the long catacomb where it's body barely fit.

The heavily armored fighter and cleric then came out of hiding and began to destroy the creature. It's immense bulk trapped, the beast could not turn around and could only charge forward into the waiting barbarian and monk's weapons.

There should be many times when it's not a squeeze to move through the space you occupy and yet you can't quickly turn around.

 

[Zaruthustran]

These edge cases are when the DM needs to step in and rule. The PHB should not try to handle every contingency.

 

[jdrakeh]

Well, square bases don't necessitate square (i.e., four-sided) facing, as anybody who has ever played a minis game can tell you. I, for one, wouldn't mind seeing more traditional LOS rules and base-to-base contact rules that negate the need for facing all together, save to say that the front side of a mini represents the point of origin for LOS.

 

[Jhaelen]

The barbarian and monk were able to lure the worm down the long catacomb where it's body barely fit.

The heavily armored fighter and cleric then came out of hiding and began to destroy the creature. It's immense bulk trapped, the beast could not turn around and could only charge forward into the waiting barbarian and monk's weapons.

There should be many times when it's not a squeeze to move through the space you occupy and yet you can't quickly turn around.

I'd say your example makes a case for changing the squeeze rules rather than being a good example why facing needs to be in the game.
The 'space' entry for a creature is dimensioned to allow the creature to turn in its space. It's not meant to indicate that this space is completely filled by the creature (there are exceptions, like the gelatinous cube, but that's just that: an exception).

 

[Klaus]

Double post.

 

[Klaus]

The barbarian and monk were able to lure the worm down the long catacomb where it's body barely fit.

The heavily armored fighter and cleric then came out of hiding and began to destroy the creature. It's immense bulk trapped, the beast could not turn around and could only charge forward into the waiting barbarian and monk's weapons.

There should be many times when it's not a squeeze to move through the space you occupy and yet you can't quickly turn around.

The purple worm is squeezing through an 5' opening that it less than half of its space (20'). By the RAW, it needs to make an Escape Artist check to move through it, losing any attacks, and it takes -4 penalty to AC and loses any Dex bonus to AC. A DM could rule that it doesn't need the Escape Artist check, being cyllindrical, allowing it to attack creatures ahead of her, but not behind (yes, it suddenly gains a facing).

There ya go.

 

[frankthedm]

A DM could rule that it doesn't need the Escape Artist check, being cyllindrical, allowing it to attack creatures ahead of her, but not behind (yes, it suddenly gains a facing).

It can bite the way it was last moving, it can sting the opposite direction.