Is a Horse Still a 10 by 10 creature?/Should there be facing?

[Klaus]

It can bite the way it was last moving, it can sting the opposite direction.

There ya go. The barbarian and the fighter could pull off a Ring of the Nibelungs and hide in a side corridor, waiting for the beast to pass them, and attack once it's trapped (possibly with the others dropping portcoullis or something to that effect to trap it).

 

[Hussar]

The barbarian and monk were able to lure the worm down the long catacomb where it's body barely fit.

The heavily armored fighter and cleric then came out of hiding and began to destroy the creature. It's immense bulk trapped, the beast could not turn around and could only charge forward into the waiting barbarian and monk's weapons.

There should be many times when it's not a squeeze to move through the space you occupy and yet you can't quickly turn around.

While this has been answered nicely, I would point out something else.

1 heavily contrived situation (have you ever seen this in play?) does not equal "many times".

How often have you actually seen anything like this come up in play. Not this specific example, but, heck, even the line of cavalry charge? When has the square base ever come up as affecting play other than bothering your personal sense of aesthetics?

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

Been in a lot of real world life and death hand to hand combat have you?

Nope, just watched a lot of it in the movies. That's what I'm trying to simulate, even if it isn't "realistic". Still, I've turned my head before in order to look behind me and I know it can be done very quickly. Like when I'm changing lanes in my car.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Nope, just watched a lot of it in the movies. That's what I'm trying to simulate, even if it isn't "realistic". Still, I've turned my head before in order to look behind me and I know it can be done very quickly. Like when I'm changing lanes in my car.

I was discussing a related issue with a friend of mine who enjoys a lot of "re-enactment society" fighting last week, and he mentioned that in the heat of combat people often get a kind of tunnel vision, and just concentrate on the person in front of them - the more experienced a warrior, the more likely they are to be able to keep an eye on other things that are going on around them.

Now we are talking about the confusion of pitched battle rather than one on one or two on two combat here, but I thought it was an interesting observation.

Of course, with 4e scaling skills seeming likely, so that everyone will have better perception as they get to higher levels regardless of whether it is a specialty of theirs or not, it might be possible to introduce perception checks to notice people "behind you" for those who want to simulate facing without seriously shafting the PCs who don't have spot on their class list (in 3e parlance).

Cheers

 

[BradfordFerguson]

I gotta agree with you Joe about squeezing through and not being able to turn around. Anyone ever been in a cave, crawlspace, or attic area that is too narrow to turn around in? I have an attic area is not very navigable.

You could always Rule Zero it and say, if the monster is squeezing through an area, to give it facing and it cannot turn around.

With all the cramped adventure maps, the instance of this might be too often though (if you run the adventures as written). Half the time though, I'm like, "This room is wayyyy too small. WALA! It's now 10' bigger each side..."

 

[Klaus]

I gotta agree with you Joe about squeezing through and not being able to turn around. Anyone ever been in a cave, crawlspace, or attic area that is too narrow to turn around in? I have an attic area is not very navigable.

You could always Rule Zero it and say, if the monster is squeezing through an area, to give it facing and it cannot turn around.

With all the cramped adventure maps, the instance of this might be too often though (if you run the adventures as written). Half the time though, I'm like, "This room is wayyyy too small. WALA! It's now 10' bigger each side..."

Hey, Bradford!

Anything came out of those NPC illos I did for you?

 

[mmadsen]

nb it might be interesting to say that for some weapons (such as spears or other thrusting weapons such as shortswords) there is no attack penalty for fighting when 'squeezed' and large shields mean that there is no defence penalty for fighting when 'squeezed'. This would let you create a phalanx of legionaries armed with large shield and shortsword packed 4 men to a 5ft square who could still fight effectively because their equipment (and training?) supports it. Could have similar things to allow for cavalry charges, probably.

I would love to see the 4E combat system informed by reality like this.

 

[mmadsen]

No one who has ever been in a battle before should ever be able to be snuck up on in the middle of fighting without dying very early in their career.

That's why you fight shoulder-to-shoulder with your brothers-in-arms -- because if anyone comes up behind you, you're defenseless.

Just using your peripheral vision properly allows you to see about 180 degrees without even a slight turn of the head or shift of the feet.

In a stressful situation like combat, you lose your peripheral vision but gain incredible focus.

Of course, I see no reason for high-level fighters not to have "peripheral vision" feats that let them fight swarms of ninjas coming from every direction...