Is a natural 20 a threat for a grenade?

[diaglo]

i suck/ am broken/ nerfed when it comes to rules.

but i swear i read somewhere that all weapons threaten on a 20 and do X2 on a crit unless otherwise stated.

does this apply to grenadelike weapons too?


of course, barring the whole immune to crits thing.

 

[Tzarevitch]

I always thought grenades targeted an area with a burst effect and a reflex save for 1/2 similar to a spell.

Tzarevitch

 

[diaglo]

i believe you are right about the burst. but they still use a direct hit tactic.

so i toss my vial of acid, burning oil, holy water, or alchemist fire.

and roll a natural 20 for a direct hit.

in this case i hit a target. those around the target take splash damage.

 

[mmu1]

I'd say it depends on whether you're making your attack against the 5' square the enemy was in, or the enemy himself. If you're just throwing it into his square, then I don't think a crit is possible. On the other hand, if you're making a touch attack against the character, then you have a chance of hitting a sensitive spot.

That's how I'd rule it with D&D "grenade-like weapons", anyway - with actual grenades in a modern-setting game, I don't think getting a critical hit makes sense, it's not as if your skill affects the random scattering of grenade fragments - unlike, say, hitting someone in the face with Alchemist's Fire.

 

[LokiDR]

Throw a flask of alchemist's fire as a grenadelike weapon.
On the round following a direct hit, the target takes an additional 1d6 points of damage.

You can both crit and sneak attack with alchemist's fire. You must hit the opponent's touch AC to damage them other than splash.

 

[Conaill]

You can both crit and sneak attack with alchemist's fire. You must hit the opponent's touch AC to damage them other than splash.

That is very much open for debate, actually, IIRC, there have been contradictory rulings from WotC customer support on this.

Until we see something more official in the FAQ it's pretty much up to your DM to decide how to run this. In the campaign I'm currently in, we've decided that sneak attacks with Alchemist's Fire would only work on an opponents that is large enough that you can specifically target a vital organ (remember, AF splashes in a 5' radius... it is not a precision weapon!). A dragon's eye would be a legitimate target for a sneak attack with a grenade-like wepoan, for example...

 

[diaglo]

well here is what i was thinking:

you bean the target with your flask and confirm the threat. the flask does 1hp of damage for the hit (minimum damage for any hit) plus 1 hp of damage for the crit. plus breaking and then only normal damage for the contents.

i wasn't thinking of giving the contents as a crit. but that is where our discussion in our game varied.

(i'm a player not a DM for my group)

 

[Conaill]

you bean the target with your flask and confirm the threat. the flask does 1hp of damage for the hit (minimum damage for any hit) plus 1 hp of damage for the crit. plus breaking and then only normal damage for the contents.

i wasn't thinking of giving the contents as a crit. but that is where our discussion in our game varied.

I don't see anything wrong with a houserule that gives an extra 2 points of damage on a crit with a (hard) grenadelike weapon. The main sticking point is really whether the *content* causes any crit or sneak attack damage. That's an issue of several d6 of damage, not just an extra 2 points...

 

[diaglo]

I don't see anything wrong with a houserule that gives an extra 2 points of damage on a crit with a (hard) grenadelike weapon.

well that is my question. is there something "official" or do we have to turn to houserules?

thus the original question of this thread. do crits apply to grenadelike weapons?

and if there is a rule already in the books. then all the other questions can follow. like sneak attack, called shots, etc...

 

[LokiDR]

That is very much open for debate, actually, IIRC, there have been contradictory rulings from WotC customer support on this.

Until we see something more official in the FAQ it's pretty much up to your DM to decide how to run this. In the campaign I'm currently in, we've decided that sneak attacks with Alchemist's Fire would only work on an opponents that is large enough that you can specifically target a vital organ (remember, AF splashes in a 5' radius... it is not a precision weapon!). A dragon's eye would be a legitimate target for a sneak attack with a grenade-like wepoan, for example...

Customer support is not worth the electrons they use in any sort of difficult point.

By the way, what kind of called shot house rules do you use? Since it is not technially possible to strike any specific part of any creature, no matter the size, with any sort of weapon. That is what the damage roll is for.

As for AF, it requires an attack roll to hit and does damage immediately. We are not talking about an area of effect. Attack roll + damage = critable. The difference, in this case, is that there is specific problem with missing and surrounding area gets splash. Splash is not targeted, and therefore not critable.