Is a Ninja/Barbarian possible?

[Sundragon2012]

My kneejerk reaction would be to say no only because in my games barbarian is more than just a class, its part of a cultural set of assumptions having to do with a less civilized point of view. In my setting folks don't choose to be barbarians, they either are or they aren't. However, in my games, barbarian doesn't always equate with berserker either.

Having said that, if the player came up with a believable reason why this was going to happen I would be all ears. I would say that if his character knew of a barbarian tribe and had a contact within that tribe that could teach him their ways and train him in the fine art of going berserk, very much like the berserker lodges found in the forgotten realms, then I would say yes. He would be a babarian in class in a metagame sense, but in game he would be a ninja trained in a barbarian fighting style. In all ways he would be his normal, everyday ninja self, but in battle he could transform into a frothing, killing machine due to his special training.

Something along those lines. However, I would require some in-game role playing and training for this to take place. IMO without some kind of vaguely consistant rationale, it would seem like nothing more than someone who wanted some kind of cool bonus and would smack of serious metagaming without some in game context to support this choice.


Chris

 

[WillyTheSquid]

Well, from my (admittedly limited) experience with modern Japanese storytelling, a disciplined warrior going feral/insane/unhinged isn't all that uncommon - usually they get lots stronger by doing so; it's just that these are usually the bad guys & they get killed by the protagonist who IS disciplined.

Anyway, this offers so much roleplaying opportunities that I love it. What about the conflict

Also, two historical notes: barbarians aren't the same thing as berzerkers (far from it actually... berzerkers weren't raging whirlwinds of death, they were the guys who were crazy enough to run screaming and naked at the enemy with a big axe in their hands; meanwhile, 'barbarian' was usually a label placed upon a culture that was seen as inferior by another, more 'civilized' culture.

Note 2: Ninjas were traditionally untrained peasants that were paid to do an assassin's job. The image pop culture has of ninjas is based on legend but nothing of it is actually true. One of the methods of assassination ninjas employed was sitting under the battlefield toilet of the opposing warlord and sticking a (poisoned) spear up his rear when he went to do his 'business'. Not so glamorous, huh?

 

[Hand of Evil]

This is one of those "world" questions a DM has to think about. To me barbarians are born, Ninja is a learned profession. So, yes a barbarian can become a ninja but a ninja cannot become a barbarian...but he can fake it.

 

[Henry]

Unless the player could convince me with one HECK of a believable story background, I wouldn't allow it as GM, more on suspension of disbelief than anything. A ninja's craft practices silence, control, and efficiency. The literary barbarian's M.O. totally goes 180 degrees from that approach. It's the same reasoning I dislike "Rage Mages", also - concentrating and summoning magical forces and spells while raging?

Uh-uh. I can't resolve it, any more than I can nowadays resolve characters named Piehole the Mighty.

 

[Cartigan Mrryl]

I have two words for you... Samurai Jack.

Here's a guy that has wandered the world, sucked up all kinds of fancy training, and now wanders the Earth searching for his nemesis, Aku. He goes through a lot of harsh territory, almost always populated with enemies, almost always alone, and he still manages to come out on top.

Soo.... what if Cap'n Ninja was trained by his Ninja School, but then forced away from his training (or perhaps part of his training?) / school is wiped out by "foreign invaders" and left abandoned in some inhospitable territory? There he stayed for months/years, learning to survive by living off the land. Alone. He becomes a hardened man who speaks little (and *shrug* forgets how to read/write?) and is always staving off some sort of danger... environment, monsters, hunger/thirst... and *paf* he is now a Barbarian. And he's angry. Angey at the masters who left him for dead/the invaders who destroyed his village/having been so long from civilaztion that any remnants of it make him crazy (like Tarzan)...

Barbarian's only a title, after all.

Okay, firstly, Barbarian IS usually only a title, and I've never seen a Ninja, nor do I have the HB that would let me, so I couldn't overall judge. However, Maybe you should Rule 0 the whole he can't rage AND use his ninja abilities at the same time, and i think that he'd have to be chaotic alignment in order to be a Barbarian, wheras a Ninja would probably be more lawful. I would also tell him that he can only use his ninja abilities if he is wielding a weapon that he can use as a Ninja (What kind of proficiencies do Ninja's have?) So you can't have a Human Ninja/Barb running around with a Greataxe killing people at will, I'd also agree with the guy who says you should advise him to go for more agility things than straight-combat.

Or wait... make it so that whenever he has to use his Ninja skills fomr now on, due to his now "Innate Barbarian Rage" he should have to make a Concentration check. What say you? DC depends upon the situation, normal attitude he'd have to make a check vs. DC 10 or 5... whereas when he's raged it's more 15+? That'd make him really think about whether it's worth it or not...


P.S. I'd like to hear if my ideas a good one or not, okay?

 

[Sundragon2012]

Unless the player could convince me with one HECK of a believable story background, I wouldn't allow it as GM, more on suspension of disbelief than anything. A ninja's craft practices silence, control, and efficiency. The literary barbarian's M.O. totally goes 180 degrees from that approach. It's the same reasoning I dislike "Rage Mages", also - concentrating and summoning magical forces and spells while raging?

Uh-uh. I can't resolve it, any more than I can nowadays resolve characters named Piehole the Mighty.

I tend to agree. Without a really good in-game rationale, it is a ridiculous combination that I would veto in a heartbeat. DMs have to be careful in a "slippery slope" kind of way. One preposterous character and your setting's suspension of disbelief goes out the window and, if your players are immature or inexperienced RPers, then waves of really idiotic character concepts will flood your game. I went through this when I was about 17yrs old. I wouldn't say no when I should and my game started looking utterly preposterous.


Chris

 

[Henry]

Also, two historical notes: barbarians aren't the same thing as berzerkers (far from it actually... berzerkers weren't raging whirlwinds of death, they were the guys who were crazy enough to run screaming and naked at the enemy with a big axe in their hands; meanwhile, 'barbarian' was usually a label placed upon a culture that was seen as inferior by another, more 'civilized' culture.

Agreed, but that doesn't describe many literary barbarians, and especially not the D&D barbarian. The D&D Barbarian IS that freaking loony with the big weapon who charges screaming at the enemy - the Damage resistance, big hit points, fleetness of foot and lack of heavy armor proficiency reinforces it.

Of all the suggestions so far, though, Herobizkit gives me the strongest argument to be a displaced Ninja/Barbarian - someone who takes other training due to forcible circumstances, or someone with a mental condition who goes nuts occasionally in combat. Just being angry isn't enough, though - otherwise, ANY fighter who had his favorite sword broken would be able to rage. It's physiological, not just psychological. As Willy points out, anyone from Mage to Bard could be "barbaric."

 

[Truth Seeker]

As stated by one poster.

Ninjustu is mostly a well disciplince balance mind of the mental training profession. *Then comes the body*

Barbarian-foo, is a chaotic, in your face, ignoring pain, raging at all hours, killing machine.

Ninjas are trained to strike unseen, unheard, and if wanted, strike at a distance or just a few feet from their intended target.

A Barbarian will mo down whatever is it's way.

A ninja will use the terrain to maximum effect when tracking their target.

A barbarian enraged, will ignore all advantages.

The most dangerous weapon of a ninja's arsenal, is their mind.

A most dangerous weapon of a barbarian's, is the ability to withstand damage and give it.

A ninja's main motto, is to be in and out of the target zone, before anyone realizes that someone is dead, cause of them.

A barbarian will kill everyone in their path, while advancing.

Cost:If the player wishes to go that route, then there is a major cost to the character outright.

His/her wisdom saving throws, will be have to reduced to the required number on ability to tap rage.

Ergo: Drop down their wisdom score or ST to meet the effect level of being a barbarian. With this also, certain mind disciplines techniques of ninjustu will be lost or reduce to their barest minumim, and will go no higher, as long the ability to rage is present.

Advantage:The ability to add more damage to the backstab, will be great(will not allow when raging). To run faster, and the usual compliments of being a barbarian.

Downside:If the clan that trained him or her, gets wind of this sudden change, they will have to examine the merits of it. But mostly, they will keep to the main traditions, and will consider this individual as a pariah. In the end, death will be the prefer method to end this dishonor.

More could be stated. But this is just the basic outline.

And the answer to the requested premise.

No.

 

[Henry]

His/her wisdom saving throws, will be have to reduced to the required number on ability to tap rage.

One problem -- a Barbarian gets a Will save BONUS, not a penalty. I like your idea, though - a bit of trade off, one for the other.

 

[Truth Seeker]

One problem -- a Barbarian gets a Will save BONUS, not a penalty. I like your idea, though - a bit of trade off, one for the other.

Yes they do, but as stated in the PHB, it increases at a very slow rate. The mental cost has to be considered, if they wish to go that route.

And that is the requirement of being a barbarian in the first place, low Wisdom score or actually the Saving throw. Can't get around that.