D&D 5E (2014) Is Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting a good spell?

[Nikosandros]

Now that the spell has been improved by two damage dice, I wonder how people feel about it. Fireball is still way more flexible, but at least AHW out-damages an 8th level fireball.

 

[CapnZapp]

Nope. If X d6 gave it a red rating before, X+2 dice sure won't change that. Not at level 15 play.

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[cbwjm]

Now that the spell has been improved by two damage dice, I wonder how people feel about it. Fireball is still way more flexible, but at least AHW out-damages an 8th level fireball.

I think the main problem is one you've mentioned, flexibility. With the way spell preparation and spell lots work in 5th edition, by the time you can use horrid wilting you have only a single spell slot that can use it. Fireball has access to all of the 3rd to 8th level slots. If horrid wilting had been made for 3rd level with damage that scaled similar to fireball, all else being the same, I think it would be more competitive.

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[jaelis]

Be better if it imposed a status effect too. Like, on a failed save the target has disadvantage on all attack rolls. Save at the end of turn to end that effect, or end it automatically by spending an action drinking water.

 

[Gadget]

Be better if it imposed a status effect too. Like, on a failed save the target has disadvantage on all attack rolls. Save at the end of turn to end that effect, or end it automatically by spending an action drinking water.

This. So much this. At this level, the spell needs to offer more than outright damage, especially if it is not a evocation spell. A level or two of exhaustion would not be out of line for a failed save. Maybe the victims can't recover hit points until a Greater Restoration/Heal/Wish/Remove Curse is applied or they take a short/long rest. Hit point maximum is reduced. Something to give it a little pzazz.

 

[Ancalagon]

This. So much this. At this level, the spell needs to offer more than outright damage, especially if it is not a evocation spell. A level or two of exhaustion would not be out of line for a failed save. Maybe the victims can't recover hit points until a Greater Restoration/Heal/Wish/Remove Curse is applied or they take a short/long rest. Hit point maximum is reduced. Something to give it a little pzazz.

Indeed. That or do a *ton* of damage, ie almost as good as meteor swarm kinda deal. It's an 8th level spell for crying out loud, it needs to be better than "slightly better than fireball". Otherwise any sane mage will learn another spell for her level 8th slot, and then use it to chuck a fireball if suddenly she needs to do a lot of damage.

 

[jaelis]

A level or two of exhaustion would not be out of line for a failed save.

I will say, I don't so much like handing out exhaustion levels. One level doesn't do that much, but if you make it too easy to stack up, then it becomes really crippling or lethal. But there are plenty of other effects that would suit.

 

[Stalker0]

I will say, I don't so much like handing out exhaustion levels. One level doesn't do that much, but if you make it too easy to stack up, then it becomes really crippling or lethal. But there are plenty of other effects that would suit.

The nice thing about exhaustion is that it’s a solid penalty at any level, but doesn’t take you out of the action.

You get stunned or paralyzed...and you don’t get a turn. Players HATE to miss turns.

So that is why I like that condition myself

 

[jaelis]

It doesn't seem that way to me. One level is usually easy to ignore in combat. Two levels is noticeable but not a huge deal. Three is pretty debilitating. At 4+ the effects are I think too strong.

So if ways to impose exhaustion are few and far between, I don't think they are worth it. If they become commonplace then they become the best way to win a fight.

Maybe if you had an effect that gave a level of exhaustion, but couldn't take the total level past three, I could see that.

(Also, it is kind of hard to remove levels, so if you use this kind of thing against the players it can really mess up their day. You could specify in the spell that the levels it imposes can be removed more easily, like how Sickening Radiance does. But I don't like that because then you have to keep track of what levels came from what source.)

 

[Wiseblood]

How about 1d4+1 levels of exhaustion plus 5d6 damage save means no exhaustion still take all the damage though.