D&D (2024) Is anyone at WOTC paying attention to what they print any more?

[Clint_L]

I know it’s the Internet, but must we constantly be trying to stoke outrage? Does the title really need the hyperbole?

Yes, WotC pays attention to what they print. Yes, they still make mistakes. Yes, it’s a very complex game and humans are still humans. You spotted what appears to be an error. Good job.

It’s not the end of the world. Until an errata is issued, use your common sense and make the ruling that makes the most sense to you. The game specifically empowers you to do this.

 

[ECMO3]

So in your mind the designer was like, "There's no way to make a dex save, but just for kicks and confusion I'm going not only put one in, but I'm going to include language about what happens when you succeed. Muahahahahahaha!"?

The intent is not clear to me. What I believe the designers wanted to do was have you make a Constitution save every turn to lift the effect. A Dexterity save, to overcome poison makes little sense to start with and even less while you are paralyzed. I think they made a mistake in the wording and in this respect it is poor editing and poor attention to detail.

That is what I believe in terms of the designers mind and intent and how it relates to this. I don't know that for a fact though as I am not them. It is also possible they actually wanted it to be a dexterity save and just did not think it through (again poor attention to detail). Finally it is possible that the intent is for the poison to be unshakable unless you can somehow break the Paralyzed condition, in which case they did a fine job. In terms of likelihood in my mind these are each less likely then the intent was for it to be a Constitution save and

That said, RAW is clear. If you are paralyzed (which will usually be the case) you automatically fail the dex save against the poison.

Language like that is only included if it works.

Unless they did a sloppy job writing, as I believe is the case here.

Because it talks about not only a dex save while paralyzed, but what happens when you succeed, it means you can succeed.

Yes you can succeed as long as tyou are not Paralyed when you make the save.

There is no clarity there. Poison, paralyzation, fireball, it doesn't matter what the save is against. It says you can make a dex save vs. its ability and succeed.

Absolutely, but you can not succeed on the Dex save if you are Paralyzed and nothing in the Carrion Crawler description changes this (for the first minute).

I bolded the portion that would not be there at all if you were correct. It's inclusion means that you get save and can suceed. I underlined the portion allowing success.

Why wouldn't that be there if they want you to make a save at the end of the turn?

Yes you DO get a save and 100% you can succeed at that save as long as you are not Paralyzed, Unconscios, Petrified or Stunned when you make it. If any of those four conditions are in effect you automatically fail the save.

 

[ECMO3]

Or they make a successful dex save at the end of their turn per the more specific carrion crawler RAW. You can argue until you are blue in the face and that more specific RAW will not disappear.

Yes exactly they make a dex save at then end of their turn per the specific Carrion Crawler RAW and if they are Stunned, Unconscious, Paralyzed or Petrified when they make it that save Dex save automatically fails.

 

[Maxperson]

Yes exactly they make a dex save at then end of their turn per the specific Carrion Crawler RAW and if they are Stunned, Unconscious, Paralyzed or Petrified when they make it that save Dex save automatically fails.

You still can't overcome the RAW there that you cut out that says that they can succeed. Stating that a success overcomes automatically = is possible to succeed. Your general rule fails to overcome.

 

[Maxperson]

The intent is not clear to me. What I believe the designers wanted to do was have you make a Constitution save every turn to lift the effect. A Dexterity save, to overcome poison makes little sense to start with and even less while you are paralyzed. I think they made a mistake in the wording and in this respect it is poor editing and poor attention to detail.

That is what I believe in terms of the designers mind and intent and how it relates to this. I don't know that for a fact though as I am not them. It is also possible they actually wanted it to be a dexterity save and just did not think it through (again poor attention to detail). Finally it is possible that the intent is for the poison to be unshakable unless you can somehow break the Paralyzed condition, in which case they did a fine job. In terms of likelihood in my mind these are each less likely then the intent was for it to be a Constitution save and

That said, RAW is clear. If you are paralyzed (which will usually be the case) you automatically fail the dex save against the poison.



Unless they did a sloppy job writing, as I believe is the case here.

I'm not going to assume sloppy writing like and will go with the RAW that says that they can succeed.

You are assuming sloppy. I am going with what is written. RAW.

 

[ECMO3]

You still can't overcome the RAW there that you cut out that says that they can succeed. Stating that a success overcomes automatically = is possible to succeed. Your general rule fails to overcome.

You can succeed, just not while you are Paralyzed, Unconscious, Petrified or Stunned.

At the end of a minute, you suceed automatically per the specific rules, but that only happens after a minute. That would also still apply if you are Petrified, Stunned, Unconscios or Paralyzed after that minute, because the text says you automatically succeed and that overides the general rule for all of those conditions.

 

[ECMO3]

I'm not going to assume sloppy writing like and will go with the RAW that says that they can succeed.

You are assuming sloppy. I am going with what is written. RAW.

I am not assuming anything, you asked me what I thought about how this wording got in there, that is what I believe. At my table, where I am DM it does not matter because we are going to use RAW and how it got in there is not relvant, it says what it says and is not a big deal mechanically.

What is written does not say they can succeed while Petrified, Stunned, Unconscious or Paralyzed before 1 minute and no wording there would make that the case RAW.

 

[Maxperson]

What is written does not say they can succeed while Petrified, Stunned, Unconscious or Paralyzed before 1 minute and no wording there would make that the case RAW.

Except for the wording that says that they can succeed. Whether you think it's sloppy writing or not, if it says what can happen if they succeed on a dex save, that means that they CAN succeed on a dex save. You kinda have to ignore the English language to be correct here.

 

[Nikosandros]

I'm a bit dubious that they wanted to override the general rule about dex saves in this instance, but of course it is a possibility. In any event, as I prefer a con save to end the effect, that's what I will personally go with.

 

[Maxperson]

I'm a bit dubious that they wanted to override the general rule about dex saves in this instance, but of course it is a possibility. In any event, as I prefer a con save to end the effect, that's what I will personally go with.

If they didn't, why would they allow success to end the effect rather than just tell us that it lasts for 1 minute with no further saves? It seems unlikely to me that they wanted to tell us that, "Here, you get a save that you automatically fail, but if you succeed it ends the effect."