D&D 5E Is Anyone Unhappy About Non-LG Paladins?

[Tequila Sunrise]

That arguments saying "just make a paladin class that allows all alignments and everyone's happy" are incorrect. Everyone's not happy, because a class built to support all alignments does not fill the needs of players who want the LG-only paladin. Effectively it's saying "we took the paladin out of 4e and replaced it with the champion class". To some people, it's not the same class.

So your central issue is "I want paladins to be defined the traditional way, and only the traditional way by default, and I want others to acknowledge that anything else makes me unhappy." If that about sums it up, I do indeed understand your position, and I think where it comes from.

All I want is for, say, @Hussar , to say - "Yes. Take your class out of the game and replace it with my Champion class, because it's more inclusive" - instead of "my way should make you happy too, and you're being unreasonable for not seeing so".

Well, I'm not Hussar, but I agree that your paladin definition is mutually exclusive with the modern one, and that the powers that be could solve the problem by renaming it the champion or holy warrior, or whatever.

(There'll always be complaints -- "Changing the name is change for the sake of change!" "Why couldn't they just change the definition and leave the title?!" "D&D has had paladins since forever!" etc..)

Like I said earlier though, it is your issue.

 

[Halivar]

"Why couldn't they just change the definition and leave the title?!"

I refer you to the tiefling thread.

 

[Xodis]

...the powers that be could solve the problem by renaming it the champion or holy warrior, or whatever.

I'm by no means a D&D expert, but again, why would Gods want Paladins (or this Champion) when a lot of the prominent Gods in established settings already have their own Divine/Profane Warrior? It's been a long time but I was pretty sure that DL and FR have plenty of "God Champions". So these gods should get their own special flock AND these guys? Talk about greedy Gods.

 

[Halivar]

I'm by no means a D&D expert, but again, why would Gods want Paladins (or this Champion) when a lot of the prominent Gods in established settings already have their own Divine/Profane Warrior? It's been a long time but I was pretty sure that DL and FR have plenty of "God Champions". So these gods should get their own special flock AND these guys? Talk about greedy Gods.

IIRC, they worship gods, but derive their power from their own innate goodness. They are not Clerics. They are Fighter+'s. They channel positive energy directly and not from their chosen deity. This was changed in 4th Edition and it was a substantial change, and an unneeded one, too, for the very reason you lay out.

In 4th and 5th Edition, paladins are just clerics (also holy warriors) with some flavor tweeks. Yuck.

 

[Xodis]

IIRC, they worship gods, but derive their power from their own innate goodness. They are not Clerics. They are Fighter+'s. They channel positive energy directly and not from their chosen deity. This was changed in 4th Edition and it was a substantial change, and an unneeded one, too, for the very reason you lay out.

In 4th and 5th Edition, paladins are just clerics (also holy warriors) with some flavor tweeks. Yuck.

So D&D turned God-powered Paladins into the same thing WoW uses to explain their Paladins.....very sad indeed. Can't wait for evil creatures to capture an Angel so they can start stealing Divine power for their own uses.

 

[Halivar]

So D&D turned God-powered Paladins into the same thing WoW uses to explain their Paladins.....very sad indeed. Can't wait for evil creatures to capture an Angel so they can start stealing Divine power for their own uses.

You have it backwards. Non-god powered was 1st-3rd Edition. 4E made them god-powered.

EDIT: Ironically, WOW's paladin lore hews closer to classic D&D than "modern" D&D does.

 

[Xodis]

You have it backwards. Non-god powered was 1st-3rd Edition. 4E made them god-powered.

Wow, I seriously thought they were always God-powered, glad for the change then. Wonder who punished them from before or if it was like the Vegan Powers of Todd in Scott Pilgrim vs the World.

 

[Aenghus]

You have it backwards. Non-god powered was 1st-3rd Edition. 4E made them god-powered.

It's more complicated than that. Early editions had paladins powered by their own goodness, association with a god common but optional. Forgotten realms paladins needed to follow an appropriate deity, just like everyone else. 1e paladins were special virtue of their very high stat requirements and extreme restricitions, making them rare.

4e has the divine classes invested with divine power by ritual of the clergy, the god doesn't need to be directly involved. Once so invested, by the book they retain the powers regardless of their subsequent behavior. This allows crises of faith, traitors, heretics and drifting.

 

[Halivar]

Wow, I seriously thought they were always God-powered, glad for the change then. Wonder who punished them from before or if it was like the Vegan Powers of Todd in Scott Pilgrim vs the World.

It wasn't that you were "punished" per se; if you weren't good, you didn't have your goodness powering you. And once blemished, you could not regain your innocence.

 

[Imaro]

You have it backwards. Non-god powered was 1st-3rd Edition. 4E made them god-powered.

EDIT: Ironically, WOW's paladin lore hews closer to classic D&D than "modern" D&D does.

Actually paladins in 4e are ritual-powered by the followers of the god... Which I find funny because it's more like making a deal with the god's followers (i.e. a warlock whose made a bargain for power) than it is a divinely powered champion of chivalry and steadfast bravery... at least IMO...