D&D (2024) Is Counterspell less frustrating now?

[tetrasodium]

We shouldn't be blaming Counterspell for the fact that WotC can't Boss Fight their way out of a paper bag.

If your BBEG fails because they failed to get one single spell off, then they were either going to fail naturally or TPK with their big unfairness spell.

Well part of the problem is that they got rid of SR:Yes/SR:No spells that allowed a boss with SR to make save or lose & the most eyewatering damage spells very hard to land. Now instead of casters switching to more cooperative & reciprocity leaning SR:No spells 5e just has the obnoxious diceroll the save->fail->"nahhh legendary resist" that ultimately feels bad for everyone unless it's left still bad & the gm leaves them unused.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

It makes spellcaster PC vs spellcaster NPC fights much more dangerous and exciting. Now, you actually can't relax when a Lich is on the battlefield just because you have two counterspell casters (even though the Lich should have Globe of Invulnerability anyways).

Oh Snap. Does a caster's Globe of Invulnerability or a Rakshasa's "Limited Magic Immunity" mean their spells can't be countered by low level counterspells? Should Counterspell be upcastable to overcome those limitations?

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

But then they can just try again next turn, which… feels like a poor use of a 3rd level slot to me…

But if the L3 Counterspell nerfed the BBEG's spell that last round, they effectively did very little that round. That is a whole round of an entire party's worth of actions working towards destroying the enemy. By the time all the heroes' attacks are tallied up, the enemy's tactical needs may have changed dramatically. Maybe the BBEG tries again (luring another counterspell). Maybe it's time to flee.

I think it works.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

But only being able to counterspell V, S and/or M component spells makes sense. It is logical in the game world and removes the meta knowledge.
DMs I played with used this part already as a house rule. That's why the subtle spell metamagic is actually meaningful.

Subtle spell means your spells without components are un-counterable. Innnnteresting for sorcerers (and GOO Enchantment and Illusion spells due to their "Psychic Spells" ability.

 

[Charlaquin]

But if the L3 Counterspell nerfed the BBEG's spell that last round, they effectively did very little that round. That is a whole round of an entire party's worth of actions working towards destroying the enemy. By the time all the heroes' attacks are tallied up, the enemy's tactical needs may have changed dramatically. Maybe the BBEG tries again (luring another counterspell). Maybe it's time to flee.

I think it works.

Just depends on how limited a resource 3rd+ level spell slots are for the counterspell user. I think at 5th level it will rarely be worth it, but at 9th or higher it’ll be easier to justify.

 

[Stalker0]

That seems like user error, to me. If your party has more than 2 PCs that can Counterspell…don’t use a BBEG that is 90% spells?

Party's fighter dies, decides to make a new character that's a wizard wtih counterspell. THe BBEG has already been made, its even been showcased to the party in previous fights.

These things happen in game, while you can certainly adjust things as you go, sometimes the narrative you have chosen somewhat "freezes" the mechanics of the creatures you are using.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

So lets look at a lich, probably the standard example of a "high level BBEG spellcaster".

Liches don't have counterspell by default, and don't cast anything other than a cantrip with legendary actions (which we don't likely care to counterspell).

If the answer to counterspell is "well you should also use counterspell", that right there tells me the spell is too good.

Okay, that is a problem with the Lich, not with the spell.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Party's fighter dies, decides to make a new character that's a wizard wtih counterspell. THe BBEG has already been made, its even been showcased to the party in previous fights.

These things happen in game, while you can certainly adjust things as you go, sometimes the narrative you have chosen somewhat "freezes" the mechanics of the creatures you are using.

You can add a spell to an NPC.

 

[Stalker0]

Okay, that is a problem with the Lich, not with the spell.

if your redesigning entire monsters because of 1 spell.....the spell just miiiiiight be too good

 

[Stalker0]

Let also keep in mind that counterspell is arcane only. So that archdruid you want to use.....no counterspell for them. The chosen of bane 20th level cleric, nope Dopey the wizard shuts him down.