Is coup de grace a broken rule?

[Drawmack]

Two Fire Giants, four ogres and two dire wolves are camped in a snowy hollow about 120 feet from tree cover. The giants are sleeping round the fire and the wolves and ogres are on guard. The monsters don't have access to spells.

Why not? You mean this party hasn't killed and looted any adventurers?

The party has two thieves, a mage and a druid. The thieves are made invisible by the mage, have invisibility to animals and pass without trace cast on them by the druid. The have a ring of silence. They then sneak into the camp and slay the giants, as they cannot be heard, seen or smelled. They don't even leave foot prints due to the pass without trace.

Invisibility
Level: Brd 2, Sor/Wiz 2, Trickery 2
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Personal or touch
Target: The character or a creature or object weighing no more than 100 lb./level
Duration: 10 minutes/level (D)

Invisibility to Animals
Level: Drd 1
Casting Time: 1 action
Targets: One creature touched/level
Duration: 10 minutes/level (D)

Pass without Trace
Level: Drd 1, Rgr 1
Casting Time: 1 action
Targets: One creature/level touched
Duration: 10 minutes/level

This burns 2 second level and 2 first level spells.

Wizard at third level gets only 1 second level spell. How did he make both rogues invisible?

A Druid at first level get only 2 first level spells. So the wizard did the impossible and the druid burned all his first level spells to do this. On top of that both the wizard and the druid must prepare their spells ahead of time, like the morning before, so they have walked around for an entire day waiting for the opportunity to use these spells.

The fire giants you described sound like a war party. What's going to happen when they don't report in tomorrow? Another note what about those Dire Wolves (CR 8, 45 hp, +10 to hit, +10 damage) and Ogres (CR 2, 26 hp, +8 melee/+1 ranges to hit, 2d6+7 damage melee, 1d8 + 5 damage ranged). Your first level party managed to finish these guys off, after their masters were killed by them. Also as soon as the first fire giant is attacked one of the rogues becomes visible.

The problem isn't with coupe de gras here - this scenario is impossible for a third level party to defeat even if they take out the fire giants which is a move that will make them hunted by the rest of the fire giants tribe.

IMC, this would have been a TPK, don't go easy on the party cause they're being stupid. Two rounds and a dire wolf can easily take out a third level rogue and with his saves, the mage is going to have a hard time hitting him with anything that's not area of effect, which will also hit the rogues. If my party does something ultimately stupid I make it harder for them to run then it would have been in the first place as well.

 

[Pirotess]

CDG is not broken.

It is pretty easy to kill a helpless foe, and the rule makes this possible in the game.

Just make sure to be ready for your players next time so they do not keep using the same tactic. And remember, CDG works just as well for the bad guys as it does for the PCs.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Wizard at third level gets only 1 second level spell.

Well, sure... if his Intelligence is less than thirteen...

:-\

-Hyp.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

See PHB p121 and p128.

A spell with a casting time of One Full Round requires a full round action, and also continues until the next round. It's completely different to any other full round action.
-Hyp.

Gah! Thanks Hyp.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Well, sure... if his Intelligence is less than thirteen...

You mean fourteen? For a 2nd-level bonus spell?

An illusionist wouldn't even need that.

 

[CCamfield]

I thought I'd mention an item I decided should be in my campaign:

wands of alarm

It makes a great deal of sense to me that these exist, and militaristic fire giants seem a good example of creatures that would use them if they had 'em.

 

[Hypersmurf]

You mean fourteen? For a 2nd-level bonus spell?

Yeah. I meant 13 or less, and I couldn't be bothered editing it

-Hyp.

 

[bret]

Two Fire Giants, four ogres and two dire wolves are camped in a snowy hollow about 120 feet from tree cover. The giants are sleeping round the fire and the wolves and ogres are on guard. The monsters don't have access to spells.

The party has two thieves, a mage and a druid. The thieves are made invisible by the mage, have invisibility to animals and pass without trace cast on them by the druid. The have a ring of silence. They then sneak into the camp and slay the giants, as they cannot be heard, seen or smelled. They don't even leave foot prints due to the pass without trace.

Once the giants are killed the druid and the mage join in.

What is a ring of silence? The reason I ask is if it has any sort of radius (like the Silence spell which has 15' radius), someone is going to notice when everything suddenly goes silent. That radius is the most annoying part of the spell, prevents this situation.

What are *Fire* Giants doing in a *snowy* environment, other than being totally miserable?

You realize that on a natural 20, anyone can make their saving throw?

As others have pointed out, Halflings can't use large weapons. No small creature can.

Pass without Trace doesn't prevent things from moving while the character moves through, it prevents any traces from being left. Think of it as quickly putting everything back in place after the character moves past and you get the idea. The bent branches are put back in place, the footprints are erased, etc. That means that as they walk, there is still the depression where their feet currently are. It fills in as soon as their feet move, but there is still a chance of seeing it.


Overall, the players plan was pretty good. I wouldn't be looking to punish them, but people do have to be careful of invisible opponents.

 

[green slime]

INVISIBILITY TO ANIMALS
Abjuration
Level: Drd 1
Components: S, DF
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Touch
Targets: One creature touched/level
Duration: 10 minutes/level
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes
Animals cannot perceive the warded creatures. They act as though the warded creatures are not there. Warded creatures could stand before the hungriest of lions and not be molested or even noticed. If a warded character touches an animal or attacks any creature, even with a spell, the spell ends for all recipients.

So as soon as the first Firegiant gets whacked, the wolves tear into the halflings... leaving paste.

Sure it only requires a single spell from the Druid, but 4 Ogres and two Dire wolves should spell the end of the 3rd level party.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

This results in a party of 4 third level characters (CR3) taking out 2xCR10 + 4xCR2 + 2xCR3 monsters. Something they should not be able to do at their level, except coup de grace allows it.

Hm... You're right: they should not be able to do it, and CdG hasn't much to do with it.


Where did they get that ring of silence from? How much did it cost? (I ask cause a normal 3rd-level character has between 2700 and 5400 worth of equipment, and that ring might be to much for them, depending on what else they have).

Anyway, right after the two murders, we have two roges in the middle of several ogres and dire wolves. And the only help they get are a druid and a wizard, and both already have uses up several of their spells. By the time the spellcasters can come and help, they should have torn up the rogues.

4 3rd-level characters are Party level 3, but CR 7