D&D 5E Is D&D a Story or a Game? Discuss.

[OB1]

It's a story game. And a game that generates stories.

A story only needs a protagonist who has a conflict that is resolved. Every game of D&D meets this minimum.

D&D provides rules to resolve those conflicts via playing a dice game when the authors are unsure of how it should resolve.

And every game generates two stories. The story of the PCs and the story of the players, with the two being linked in ways that are inseparable.


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[Shasarak]

That's rather the point, isn't it? What isn't covered by the rules isn't really playing Dungeons and Dragons. It's just freeform roleplaying. Which is fine, and generally every session will involve at least some of this, and possibly a great deal of it.

This is a meaningful distinction, because when one argues the merits/faults of a game system, they need to accurately distinguish what the system supports and what is going on independent of the system.

So if we are not rolling the dice we are not playing DnD then?

 

[Tony Vargas]

A story only needs a protagonist who has a conflict that is resolved. Every game of D&D meets this minimum.

Some styles in which D&D is purported to be run really de-emphasize the idea that a PC is in any way a protagonist.

 

[OB1]

Some styles in which D&D is purported to be run really de-emphasize the idea that a PC is in any way a protagonist.

They can de-emphasize it, but they still are. In this case, protagonist refers to a character with a goal that is opposed by some force. As in the following classic example.

Not a story - I went to the grocery store and bought groceries.

Story - I went to the grocery store, but when I got there realized my bank account was empty. I then convinced the manager to allow me to take the groceries home on the promise that I would pay her back later.

Or a more D&D example.

Not a story - The Fighter, Thief, Magic User and Cleric walked through the forest to get to the town of Elephantium.

Story - The Figher, Thief, Magic User and Cleric walked through the forest, and fought 6-8 groups of monsters along the way, defeated them, took their stuff, and finally arrived at their destination, the town of Elephantium.

 

[Sunseeker]

So if we are not rolling the dice we are not playing DnD then?

I mean thecnically no we're not. Story-telling is system independent.

Think of it like commercials. When you watch a TV show, commercials come on from time to time. When the commerials are on, you've stopped watching your show, but you're still watching TV.

When you stop rolling the dice and start telling story, you've stopped playing the game but you're still playing.

 

[Psikerlord#]

For me, RPGs are always more game than story. Or at least that's what I prefer to focus on. A cool story can also add to the fun however.

 

[Shasarak]

I mean thecnically no we're not. Story-telling is system independent.

Think of it like commercials. When you watch a TV show, commercials come on from time to time. When the commerials are on, you've stopped watching your show, but you're still watching TV.

When you stop rolling the dice and start telling story, you've stopped playing the game but you're still playing.

Using your analogy, if DnD is just rolling the dice then time wise it is effectively the commercial in-between the program of talking about stuff that separates you from the next DnD commercial.

 

[Sunseeker]

Using your analogy, if DnD is just rolling the dice then time wise it is effectively the commercial in-between the program of talking about stuff that separates you from the next DnD commercial.

Sure I mean, that's like watching the Superbowl just to see the halftime commercials but okay. How much story time one table has over game time vs another really isn't the point. You story doesn't need any edition or system to function. I think most people try to weave the two together in a manner so that you can't tell the commercials from the programming, (like Michael Bay's Transformers, is it a movie? Is it a car commercial? Is it a toy commercial? The world may never know!) but that's not required by the rules, sometimes it's encouraged or suggested by the rules, but it's not necessary for the game to function.

That's why we have things like Drunkards and Dragons. Or "Beer & Pretzels" games. People may create a story from that, but the story wasn't necessary to play.

 

[Henry]

They can de-emphasize it, but they still are. In this case, protagonist refers to a character with a goal that is opposed by some force. As in the following classic example.

Not a story - I went to the grocery store and bought groceries.

Story - I went to the grocery store, but when I got there realized my bank account was empty. I then convinced the manager to allow me to take the groceries home on the promise that I would pay her back later.

Or a more D&D example.

Not a story - The Fighter, Thief, Magic User and Cleric walked through the forest to get to the town of Elephantium.

Story - The Figher, Thief, Magic User and Cleric walked through the forest, and fought 6-8 groups of monsters along the way, defeated them, took their stuff, and finally arrived at their destination, the town of Elephantium.

You just told a story about what happened in the game - it doesn't have to go that way, and indeed, the PCs could have all died along the way. It's my assertion that as soon as there is an element of chance injected (whether combat rolls, skill rolls, or even a coin flip) that the narrator(s) do not control during the telling, it is no longer a story, but a game - a game from which arises story. Even without die rolls, the DM does not control the player's actions any more than the players contol the DM's - hence even at a table without a single die roll, there's still the element of chance and uncertainty.

To me, the D&D session that has the DM dictating actions, and already predetermining the outcome for the PCs -- that's when it is no longer game but story, and thus is no longer an RPG.

 

[clearstream]

It clarifies, and it makes sense, but I don't think the distinctions are all that important.

I don't know if I see all that significant a difference between "telling a story" and "a story".

To go back to film, we can all point at a movie and say "that's a film" or "that's a story" or "that's acting". It is all of those things.

Sure, we can discuss the difference....one's a medium, one's the product, and one's the method of creation.....but that doesn't mean that the film isn't all those things.

I believe that there are reasons the distinction is helpful. Say we want to understand the craft and science of creating a movie? The technical details of light, and lenses, and all such things. We can learn much that will be valuable in producing a great film without even touching on story. So it is important to us that we can separate the story away from the movie-making. Similarly, in telling a story there is much we might learn about language, emphasis, voice projection, pacing and so on that is distinct from the stories we intend to tell. I guess this is really impacts my thinking. We can certainly describe things in various different ways, but I feel it is valuable to have descriptions that have analytical power. For me, making a distinction between process and product is useful.

Bringing it back to D&D. We probably agree that we can experience a story without playing a game (although maybe an author plays a kind of game in their head when they write one?) For example, we can read a book. Whenever we play a game however, we perforce produce stories. It's really impossible for us to play without doing that... but this relies on the definition. If a story is a recital or account, then that makes terrific sense. But if the story is a game then everything becomes kind of muddled. Is the story-game the same story as the story-book was? Why does it seem different and how do we talk about that (without teasing story apart from game again!) I feel like it is better to say that playing D&D produces stories. So D&D is not a story, it is something that produces stories. Experiencing those stories is important to enjoyment of D&D. Using this description that preserves meaning in every part feels valuable to me. Certainly from the point of view of pragmatism.